Europe @feddit.org solo @slrpnk.net 2w ago

Activists urge European governments to address colonial past

www.amnesty.org Activists urge European governments to address colonial past

People from the African continent and its diasporas will attend workshop to share struggles, experiences and discuss ways to advance reparations

People from the African continent and its diasporas will attend workshop to share struggles, experiences and discuss ways to advance reparations

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Reparations for what? At least here in Germany there's virtually (and I'm covering my bases here, I'm fairly sure that it's literally nobody) nobody left who could be held even partially responsible for colonialism, and I am not willing to pay for crimes that I did not commit. Very few people are, I'd imagine.
- I can't say I know enough about the topic to have formed an opinion on whether or not reparations would be justified or not. But here is a point I've seen made that has stayed with me
  
  While it's true that none of us actively participated in colonialism, we still continue to profit by it. Many businesses were founded by money made in the colonies or by wares imported from them, many institutions grew by exploiting and stealing from the people living in them. At the same time the people in the former colonies still suffer from the consequences.
  
  It's a bit similar to calling for the higher taxation of rich people. Often they inherited their money and huge parts of it were made by exploiting poorer people, which is why it seems unfair to many (including me) that they should give back something to society. Some of my ancestors made good money owning a colonial goods store and I'm sure I owe at least part of my privileged situation to this money. I can understand that the descendants of the people who laboured for these goods might not think that that is fair.
- But you are willing to reap the beneficial outcomes of a crime you didn't commit. That doesn't fit together. As a German myself I have to ask you: does that mean that our state should also not give a single fuck anymore about the victims of the Nazis as "you don't want to pay for a crime you didn't commit"? We as Germans should be the first to recognize, that a society can bare responsibility the individual is not responsible for if the descendents still suffer from the consequences!
  
  WTF is wrong with this comment section?!
- Reparations for what?
  
  So many things to say, but I'll be super brief.
  
  It's quite common that people who come from colonial countries, they are taught to ignore that one of the reasons that they currently have a higher standard of living as societies (not as individuals) in comparison to the places their ancestors went and colonised is because they took/expoited/stole/etc the resources from these places, including people. In the process the colonisers also trashed the place, as well as local, thriving communities.
  
  So the way I see things, there are stuff that needs to be acknowledged first. Solutions come after.
  
  I do acknowledge that, but a society is made up of individuals. And none of those individuals is responsible for the crimes committed by their ancestors. Guilt is not passed down through generations. I do not believe that people living in former colonies are entitled to reparations because my ancestors committed crimes against their ancestors, even if those crimes still have repercussions in the current day.
  
  guilt isn‘t passed down, you‘re right, but wealth and control are. And this is what connects past and present. Exploitation in the past facilitates exploitation in the present. The system has survived largely unscathed. Of course that’s not your individual fault, but as part of the system you are still at the receiving end.
  
  For me, saying "yes, but I didn't do it", is not acknowledgement because you live in a society still profiting of it (btw when I say "you", I hope it's clear it's totally not personal). It's a matter of coming to terms with that fact and then use it as a starting point for the conversation.
- You’re still reaping the benefits from colonialism before your lifetime. Your prosperity is founded on wealth stolen from countries still suffering from the theft. It’s okay to want to repair this.
  
  If colonialism has made those countries poor, then they should have gotten rich once they were no longer part of a colonial empire. At the same time countries which had large colonial empires should have gotten poor, when loosing their empire.
  
  What we mostly see is that this is not the case. Portugal got rich after its empire collapsed. Spain was about as rich as its former colonies for a long time. France and the UK did not collapse after loosing their colonies. There are rich countries, which never did have many colonies or only small ones for a limited time, like Germany, Scandinavia or Switzerland. You also have Oman, which did not get rich despite having had colonies. We also have Africa, which only has Botswana as a country genuinly benefiting from no longer being a colony. However that was after diamonds were found inside Botswana shortly after independence. Funnily enough Botswana also asked to be a colony. Everybody else more or less failed to get rich.
  
  That is not to say that colonial empires should not pay for crimes they comitted or return stolen artifacts. The benefits of colonialism were mostly going to a small elite in the colonial countries and cost the states a lot of resources, which in many cases would have been better spend on other projects.
  
  If colonialism has made those countries poor, then they should have gotten rich once they were no longer part of a colonial empire. At the same time countries which had large colonial empires should have gotten poor, when loosing their empire.
  
  Of you look closer you will see that these countries often still exert significant control, in particular economically over their "former" colonies.
  
  This reasoning sounds very eurocentric. You talk about monetary values - rich, poor, diamonds - without taking into consideration that other civilizations, have other values, and these should be respected. At least as a proof of actual decolonisation.
  
  The issue with colonialism and coloniality is that it destroyed (and still does actually), the way of being of thriving communities around the world to the point they are not able to be self-sustained as they used to be, before the colonisers arrived there.
  
  I argued against Europe having benefited from having colonies in the Europe community, which by its nature is eurocentric.
  
  As I said Europe should pay for its crimes and I fail to see, that crimes need to benefit the criminal to be considered crimes. However that obviously makes reparations a lot more complex.
  
  The statement in your first paragraph (that you later try to prove as true) is flawed because it is eurocentric.
  
  Eurocentric does not mean talking about Europe. It's about having a biased perspective that favors or exonerates western civilisations for crimes they committed. Among other things, of course.
  
  In other words you are saying that I am a racist.
  
  Does this hold true even if these countries (often times the population at large, not just the leadership) are avid supporters of imperialism and brutal occupations?
  
  Are those countries this way as a result of the historical theft of their resources? Would uplifting the common person in that country lead to progressive change there?
  
  Difficult to say. One possible area to look into is formerly colonized nations that have experienced very strong economic growth in the last 30 years. What do you think?
  
  Would Brazil be a good example? I believe colonialism ended over 200 years ago and they've seen pretty strong growth in the last ~25 years. How would you rate their attitude towards modern colonialilsm?
  
  What about South Africa? Or is that a bad example. Their consistency on the topic of imperialism is interesting to say the least.

26 comments