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hololive @lemmy.world Ksin @lemmy.world

Opinion: Hololive refusing to credit their talent is messed up.

Disclaimer: All names contained in this post have been deliberately made public by the person themself.

Model makers, riggers, musicians, artists, and all others involved in the making of vtuber shows are all carefully credited, since it would obviously be reprehensible not to do so, but the actual performer that portrays the Idol goes entirely uncredited. The performers are all experienced entertainment industry professionals, Hololive does not and has never contracted unproven talent. Most of them have IMDB pages but universally their biggest and most prestigious work is not listed there, because Hololive forbids it.

When Rebecca Cardenas went independent as Dooby one of the very first things she did was make her identity public specifically to take credit for some previous work she's done. But even after going independent she is still seemingly contractually prohibited from taking credit for portraying Ame, something that might actually be illegal in my opinion. Rebecca should be able to list her time portraying Amelia Watson as part of her professional work experience.

I am not saying that all the talent should be forced to make their identities public, rather I think they should be credited by a name which they control. For example, the performer portraying Takanashi Kiara does not own that name and could not use that name when doing other work, but she does own the name Keekihime. So while some talent, like Karen Calanni playing Mori Calliope, would want to be credited by their real name, others, like Keekihime, might rather be credited by a stage name. The important part being that they control the name themselves and can use it as they wish.

Hololive refusing to credit the performers unfairly shackles them to the company and inhibits their professional careers, and that's messed up

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  • (...) one of the very first things she did was make her identity public specifically to take credit for some previous work she’s done.

    I don't really keep up with Dooby so this is a genuine question - do you have a source for this? I'd love to confirm it from her rather than taking it on faith.

    As for the premise of the post, there's a reason for that. Both idols in general and various VTubers (including multiple Hololive talents specifically) had issues with stalkers, harassment and other similarl things in the past. Making their identities public makes it only more likely, especially with the size of Holo's fan- and antibases. It's also the reason why they no longer accept gifts that aren't factory sealed (remember the wave of stalking cases using air tags?).

    I'm not saying Cover does that only to protect their talents, they are a company after all. On one hand it give them a bit more leverage but there's also a possibility of someone using their affiliation with Holo to prop up their other ventures - ones that might not be in an area Cover wants to be associated with (say one of the talents does porn and their Holo-porn identities are officially connected). This could lead to additional rules and vetting (talent has to stop their other activities, unlike now) or not giving them the chance they'd get otherwise.

    I'm not saying I disagree with the idea of people being able to share what they do but I don't think it's as black and white as you make it sound (or maybe I just took it that way, apologies if that's the case). Also, do we know what exactly their contracts prevent them from sharing? Is it:

    • Don't talk about being part of Hololive, period?
    • Don't talk about it while you're still working with them?
    • Can you share any info about your involvement after you leave and look for a new company for example?

    Some more info on that could make the conversation a bit easier.

    • I don’t really keep up with Dooby so this is a genuine question - do you have a source for this? I’d love to confirm it from her rather than taking it on faith.

      It’s in her Debut stream (1:01:15 if the timestamp isn’t working)

      And as far as I know companies don’t forbid talents from talking about that stuff at all, people like Dokibird would be sued to hell and back if that was forbidden. A lot of talents (Kiara, Matsuri, Noel for example) have accidentally called themselves with “the wrong name” on their PL account and nothing happened afaik. The only thing I know is forbidden is to bring official hololive material into private streams, like Aloe/Delutaya accidentally did.

    • Clip from Doobys debut stream where she talks about various personal details. She doesn't outright say her name but she deliberately drops more than enough details that anyone can just look up her IMDB.

      Yes there is absolutely a problem of stalkers and harassment which is why it should obviously be up to the talent themselves if they want to be credited by their real name or by an anonymous stage name, the important thing is that they own the name and can therefore use it in contexts outside of hololive.

      I think talent should be able to use the publics knowledge of their work with hololive to further other projects, that's the whole point of being credited, to build fame to drive audiences to their future endeavors. These are professional performers often at the start of their careers, building an audience is often even more important than simply having the experience, movie studios don't pay Tom Cruise millions just because of his acting skills, they do it because his very name is valuable and will increase viewership. Credit holds tangible value which the hololive talent are being denied.

      As for the specifics of the contract, obviously Cover doesn't publish those for general viewing, but based on the talents behaviors around the subject we can infer quite a few things. Some talent when speaking independently will sometimes allude to "their other job" or some such and lean on their audiences knowledge to fill in the blank, but they will always stop short of mentioning any specifics, no names, no places, and they will never say "hololive". And this holds true even after they have left, which I find particularly concerning. From this we can infer that the contract is fairly strict in the non disclosure department. Of course this is ultimately all speculation and conjecture but given that none speak openly about it, it seems unlikely to be of the talents own choice.

      • So yeah, I apparently misunderstood that part of your OP as I thought you meant they weren't able to talk about their Holo achievements outside the company rather than having to keep their identity separate from the avatar.

        As far as I'm aware Cover doesn't have much problems with the former though I don't think anyone tried to use it as a springboard for something new. It's hard to say whether talents not talking about their affiliation with Holo is a contractual obligation or their own choice. Remember that talking about streamer's alternative identities (let alone real ones) has been pretty much a taboo among VTubers in general. While discussion about PLs shifted with the whole Niji fiasco, that doesn't mean everyone (including talents) is interested in going full throttle in the other direction.

        Talents sharing some things about their personal life on stream doesn't mean they want everything they do online be connected (whether between identities or real and online lives). Unless one of them says, outright or otherwise, they're prohibited from taking their deserved credit I don't see a reason to fight in their name against something that may or may not be a problem. I realize I'm looking at this from a biased perspective as I'm someone very focused on privacy (to the point of trying to compartmentalize my online presence as much as possible) but VTuber culture is what it is and it's up to those directly involved in it to decide how they want to proceed.

        I also think the latter (keeping personal stuff from Holo activities) is fine due to (already mentioned) safety, wanting the brand (avatar) stand on their own and being a way to avoid potential controversies (even if someone finds "dirt" on a specific talent Cover can just go "it has nothing to do with us"). The last one was already used by Cover when some folks tried to stir shit about some of the talents being in relationship IIRC. It might feel strict but it does have its benefits.

        Lastly, I disagree that "dropping hints" is good enough reason to spread her name publicly - if she doesn't say it on stream it's only fair to keep it to yourself. You said it's about talent's choice then post personal info she deliberately chose to omit, why?

        • Lastly, I disagree that "dropping hints" is good enough reason to spread her name publicly - if she doesn't say it on stream it's only fair to keep it to yourself. You said it's about talent's choice then post personal info she deliberately chose to omit, why?

          I know in Calli/Dice's case she's gone on record previously saying she doesn't care if people see her face / know who she is. Despite that, she still doesn't go around mentioning the link explicitly under either alias (as far as I'm aware, at least), and still wanted to keep the two separated even when talking as Dice. Whether that's just for the sake of the stream not being disrupted, just for the viewer's sake (kayfabe / compartmentalization), or a weak anti-harassment / anti-"anti" thing, or something else entirely I don't know.

          Given how blasé Ame/Dooby (not just calling her Ame will take some getting used to lol) was about dropping the info about her past professional experience etc, it may be that she doesn't really care if people know but still wants to keep some element of separation nonetheless like Calli/Dice seems to. And if that's the case it seems like it's okay to mention it selectively if it's relevant - it would be difficult to discuss this topic fully without being able to refer to each talent's other work outside of holo.

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