No it's the vegans who's wrong

This thread is annoying

So are all carnivores inherently evil? Lions, evil, hawks, evil.

It's not the meat eating that's a problem, it's our population that forces us into using industrial processes to produce the required amount of food. A world of 8 billion lions would have the same problem.

Carnivores aren't evil because they don't have a choice in the matter. They are acting on instinct and do not care for ethics. Humans have a choice and moral compass, yet still create unnecessary mass death for personal gain.

As a hypothetical, if lab-grown meat becomes viable and scalable, thus offering a 1:1 replacement for meat, wouldn't we be evil if we were to reject it just because it didn't come from a dead animal? If no, why not? If yes, how dissimilar does the meat replacement have to be before humans stop being evil?

I actually eat meat fairly regularly, I'm just curious what other people think about this.
- Humans have a choice and moral compass, yet still create unnecessary mass death for personal gain.
  
  We do. And yet that is not all we are. Should one aspect of what it means to be human being valued above the others? The elevation of critical thinking faculties to being the measure of a man is a very modern post Renaissance concept, one that is slowly losing traction thankfully
- I get a choice in the matter and what that means is I can be wrong where the stupids can't. Great. Fuck you AND your free will.
Carnivores have to eat animals to survive while we don't, for starters. And they don't have access to replacements or alternatives, like we do, which justifies omnivores as well. Additionally, animals in the wild are in a survival situation, they can't really be picky about it. It's literally kill or be killed (or starve). Most of us have the luxury of choice, and when you have a choice it's then that the evil or good conundrum arises.

Overpopulation isn't the issue either, since we'd save land compared to now if we all ate plants.
- I don't think it's right to call an animal evil because it exists in a world where it's food natural is produced in an evil manner (i.e. it was born into an evil culture). If that's the case, even if you're vegan, are you certain your clothes or possessions didn't come from exploitative labor, otherwise, you're evil too right?
  
  Also, one can buy their meat from small non-factory producers or even hunt or fish their food, not uncommon at all in many parts of the world, I don't see why this is inherently any more of a "problem" than any other animal eating meat (again, the problem arises from the scale of humanity).
  
  Overpopulation isn’t the issue either, since we’d save land compared to now if we all ate plants.
  
  At best ideas like veganism pushes problems of overpopulation back a few more years. The planet is not infinite, we cannot just grow forever so long as everyone is vegan and lives in a city and takes the bus.
Who said anything about inherently evil? First, evil is a very religiously loaded term, harm or suffering is a better one. And we can absolutely morally judge a behaviour without making sweeping moral judgements about the person or being doing the behaviour.

Edit: spelling
- Who said anything about inherently evil?
  
  What else was meant by "wrong to kill" other than evil/bad/not ok? We can use "bad" if evil is too loaded.
  
  Would it be right to morally judge a lion for eating meat when it was born into a grotesquely overpopulated world, where the only appropriate way for the lion to eat is to participate in the food production system that treats prey animals as objects?
  
  I hear you say "but humans don't need to eat meat" or "humans were not evolved to eat meat" and to both of those I say you are wrong. Like I said, it's possible in modern times with B12 supplementation but this is fairly recent. An understanding of the digestive system and comparison of it vs other animals shows we are obviously evolved to eat meat (stomach pH, intestine length, microbiota all point to meat digestion).
  
  I respect vegans, those willing avoid animals for moral reasons and using modern tech to do so is admirable. I was a vegetarian (still consumed milk and egg) myself 20 years ago for about 3 years. But I don't think blaming humans for desiring what our genes make us desire is the right direction. It's like blaming people for desiring sweet foods, sugar production causes massive harm as well.
  
  In fact a similar issue exists with sugar. Significant harm to animals, the humans that harvest, and the environment come from sugar production. But the solution to this issue isn't to shame those who consume sugar, it's to understand that the issue comes from operating at a massive scale that devalues the lives of the animals (humans included) who produce the product.
  
  The fact is, life is not pretty when looked at from certain angles. Animals higher on the food chain can only live by consuming those lower on the chain. The prey hunted down by the lion isn't having any better of a time than an animal raised humanely and slaughtered without torture.
I wonder if there's any difference at all between a lion and a human in terms of reasoning. Like does a typical human have the capability to plan outcomes and make decisions based on expectations for the long term?
lions don't have tofu and supermarkets
- Neither did we for 200,000 years.
  
  The fact that veganism is possible in the modern world due to B12 supplementation doesn't mean that it's practical to expect a species to stop eating what it's evolved to desire on a large scale.
- Lions have nutritional requirements that can't be met without meat or enough generations and pressures to evolve the ability to process what they need from plants.
  
  That is a major difference between big cats and dogs, as dogs are omnivores and could make due without meat.
Evil is a societal definition. You're seeing the beginning of the definition change to include the suffering of animals. The only way it will take hold permanently is if humans end up more empathetic in the future. The current batch don't have it in them.
- So that generation will see natural predators as evil?

We evolved to eat meat, you actually are wrong.

We evolved to be able to eat a wide variety of foods. It's part of why humans have been so successful at adapting to different climates, and it's the reason we have a choice in our diets that other animals do not. If we can choose whether or not to eat animals, and if we choose to eat them purely because we like the taste better than the vegan alternatives, then we're placing a higher value on our own pleasure than the lives of these animals.
- It would be wrong for us to breath or consume natural water sources as well. We are killing far more living things doing such. Mistreating the life forms is one thing, arguing about their death is fairly moot.

Shit I probably killed a thousand sentient creatures defending my vegetable garden this spring alone.

I've found companion planting works quite well for my garden, marigolds especially for keeping pests away.
- Marigolds: my beloved
  
  It's totally possible to garden without murdering tonnes of beings

Maybe it's me that's militant and trying to force my moral values on others?

No, it must me 90% of the Population that's wrong

you are literally the absolute minority. You are Skinner in this meme. Thinking you're correct when everyone else thinks you aren't

If your moral values are that you shouldn't kill sentient animals just for pleasure, we should be on the same page, right?
@Neon @nume bro with the taiwan flag talking about how the majority must be right. have you ever been to china? >90% of chinese would say taiwan is an integral part of china. do you think before you fucking type? also, you're forcing YOUR moral values onto animals, you pay for them to perpetually bred, raised, tormented, abused and slaughtered but vegans memeing online is """FORCING""" moral views onto others? jesus christ you're dense.
Yes, minorities are literally always wrong and never in history has a minority group ever been right or caused a movement in the right direction. The end.
You are literally forcing your own moral values on livestock and/or other animals, resulting in death.

I love watching a post from a vegan community get enough traction that it starts hitting people's general feeds and carnists absolutely lose their goddamn minds in the comments🤌

Tenderize that meat

Animals are not sentient.