210 Palestinians reportedly killed during Israeli hostage recovery operation
210 Palestinians reportedly killed during Israeli hostage recovery operation
Israel’s latest hostage rescue operation, which brought four Israeli hostages to safety, also killed at least 210 Palestinians, including children, according to a Gaza health official. Noa Ar…
The bodies of 109 Palestinians including 23 children and 11 women were taken to Al-Aqsa Martyrs Hospital, and spokesperson Khalil Degran told the Associated Press that more than 100 wounded also arrived to the hospital. In addition, he said the rest of the 210 Palestinians killed were taken to Al-Awda Hospital after the spokesman said he spoke to the director there. But the numbers at that hospital could not be confirmed by the AP.
Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu vowed to continue the war until all hostages are freed, but Bassem Naim, a senior Hamas official now based in Lebanon, struck a drastically different tone.
“The horrific massacre committed today by Netanyahu and his fascist government against the Palestinian people in Gaza, which led to slaughter of 210 and more than 400 wounded so far — under the pretext of liberating those detained by the resistance — confirms what the resistance has said repeatedly: that Netanyahu doesn’t plan to reach an agreement to stop the war and free the captured Israelis peacefully,” Naim said, according to the Associated Press.
-
It's really hard to take either of them seriously because both have been known to lie through their teeth and blatantly violated the rules of war.
It's almost certain that the truth of what happened will never be known for certain, because basically none of the parties to this conflict have any credibility whatsoever.
-
Well we could have independent journalists but Israel won’t allow any in and shoots them often.
-
Correct, and that's very much part of the problem. We have very unreliable information about the state of the war. They stop journalists to prevent information from getting out, and they succeeded.
-
-
Historically the figures released by the Palestinian health system have been acknowledged as pretty accurate. From the Telegraph : "In previous rounds of fighting in the Strip, the total number of deaths reported by the Gazan authorities have been found to be broadly accurate, not differing significantly from estimates produced by the UN or IDF. There have, however, always been disputes over the civilian/combatant split."
-
With one, you have to be cautious against infrequent exaggeration. With the other, you have to work your way through their constant denial. Both are not on point in scale of truth, and both can be used to completely subvert it for some intended purposes, but I think one is closer to the truth more frequently and by a lot than the other.
You can definitely pick the exaggerating side to start with, then work your way to the truth as much as you can from there and you'd be closer to it than starting with the other one, having a lower rate of going astray.
-
-
Amazing how reportedly 0 combatants were killed while this rescue happened.
-
At least one IDF soldier was killed.
The Hamas dead isn't counted separately from the civilians. Never have been. The casualty numbers you see reported is always civilians + Hamas.
Hamas doesn't wear uniforms, so it's difficult for a third party to make an assessment on how many combatants have been killed in this war. Also there's a war happening, so that makes things difficult even when the combatants are all wearing uniforms.
-
-
"In international news, the equivalent of five Americans were killed in Afghanistan today"
-- The Onion, 2008
-
https://x.com/sentdefender/status/1799715089936761144
Purportedly one of the hostages was being held in the house of an Al-Jazeera journalist/writer/editor and several members of his family were killed while trying to prevent the hostage from being rescued.
EDIT: Turns out he wasn't an employee of Al-Jazeera, but he wrote opinion pieces for them.
EDIT 2: New article https://www.yahoo.com/news/al-jazeera-denies-connection-journalist-194749492.html - It seems that the female hostage was not the one being held at this location, but rather the three men were. The location is an apartment building and the hostages were being held on the 3rd floor while the journalist was living on the first floor. The claim that the journalist and his family were killed comes from a European based Hamas affiliate.
EDIT 3: Another article - https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/idf-confirms-abdallah-aljamal-was-holding-3-hostages-in-his-home-in-nuseirat-alongside-his-family/ - I don't read Hebrew, but it looks like IDF is confirming that the journalist and his family were the ones holding the hostages, not just someone in the same building.
EDIT 4: Looks like the US media has gotten hold of the story finally, but it's mostly NY Post and Fox news. Looks like they're behind the times because they're just running the Al-Jazeera angle.
-
Oof Google that name and you get basically zero trustworthy news articles either way. Does "purportedly" even count when it's from twitter? Sounds terrible but I'll wait for a real source
-
Did you Google the name? Because if you had you'd realize it's not a news organization and they don't make news articles. OSINT stands for Open Source Intelligence, it's basically a discord group of people in the intelligence sector posting things they have heard going on. Looking at their Twitter they seem to cover just about anything and everything, they have stuff about Ukraine, Gaza, France, UAE, Venezuela, etc. Looking for other stories it looks like they beat mainstream media to the story by about 10 hrs.
Looking into the claim itself, it seems that it originated from Israel, but Al-Jazeera's response isn't that the guy is innocent but rather that he never worked for them
https://www.jpost.com/israel-hamas-war/article-805525
Turns out that the guy had written opinion pieces for Al-Jazeera and he mainly worked for the Palestine Chronicle, which is based out of Washington state. It looks like his information was included on Al-JAzeera because he had written opinion pieces, but wasn't actually employed by them. Take that for what you will, but it doesn't change the narrative much.
-
-
Play stupid games win stupid prices.
If I'm turned into hostage, the country better raise hell on earth to get me back. I putting yourself in front of armed forces extracting a hostage? You don't get to pikachu face when you get shot.
Israel does a lot of fucked up shit and is absolutely using this as means of commiting genocide. But in this case, what were they meant to do? "ah damn, I see you're here watching him, guys we got to leave!"
-
-
It’s up to 274 dead now.
-
Holy shit... this place is lousy with pro-genocide hasbara.
And it seems the mods are perfectly fine with that... as usual.
-
Damn you were right. Scrolled down a bit and they were all over. Did Hasbara finally find Lemmy, or had there been a new wave of propagandized redditors leaving to come here?
-
They've been here pretty much since the backlash against Israel began. Some communities have managed to get on top of it and drive them out... but it seems some mod teams are either slow on the uptake or have allowed Israeli sympathizers into their ranks - it's unfortunately a consequence of liberal "every-opinion-must-be-treated-as-equal" thinking.
-
-
-
Wait why is everyone being reasonable and not virtue signaling!? Did I die and leave this hellscape called Lemmy!?
-
Another win for lowering our carbon footprint
-
Well all those people definitely weren't just civilians. Why would civilians be holding hostages? That means those people were combats. That's a good thing then.
-
The children too?
-
While not all of them were combatants, it only makes sense that Hamas would hold civilians in direct danger because they can't win otherwise. IDF would wipe the floor with Hamas in direct conflict as Israel's military power is far greater than Hamas, so Hamas is resorting to using civilians to prevent military action around their territory. Hamas then can use this against Israel in a lawfare sense when netanyahu attacks.
The issue ultimately is the intentional presence of civilians in these active military areas. Normally you wouldn't bomb schools, but when Hamas sets up shop in these typically protected areas and starts launching missiles from them they start losing that protection. This is a win-win for Hamas, they can call Israel out for being reckless if they're attacked and use down time to recuperate when Israel is restrained. Though, if you can't win without subjecting your own people to your own deliberate war crimes, I think you have an obligation to surrender, you clearly don't have your own people's interest at heart.
So, sure one could say "what else is Hamas supposed to do? They're outgunned, how else are they supposed to fight?" Answer is you don't. Hamas shouldn't have attacked in October and made the choice to subsequently hide behind civilians, they should surrender for the better of Palestinians.
-
Totally agree. Hamas sucks.
-
There's nowhere else for Hamas to set up. There's civilians in all of Gaza. It's an extremely densely populated region, even more so now that it's being cleared and destroyed. Second, Hamas was created in response to Israeli aggression that already existed. Surrendering would just bring them to the status quo that inspired the First Intifada, when Palestinians were still being attacked, killed, restricted, oppressed, and their land steadily taken for more than 20 years already. People don't respond well to that and to expect them to sit there and being slowly ethnically cleansed again is unrealistic. The correct take is to oppose Israel and it's settler colonialism.
-
-
Well all those people definitely weren’t just civilians
Since when do you hasbara care about whether someone is a civilian or not?
-
-
Considering that hummus was sitting on civilians for literal decades knowing it'll tie Israel's hands, it about time the message got sent that those tactics won't fly. I'm glad at least some of the hostages made it home safely.
-
The people killed had families, friends, who will be raging for revenge, bolstering the ranks of organizations like Hamas.
Hamas won this one, they don't care how many Palestinians die, they want more people hating Jews. The people who lost this fight are the dead and their relations, and humanity at large.
-
The people killed on October 7 had families and friends who are raging for revenge.
Why do you empathize when Palestinians want revenge but whenever you see an Israeli raging about their people getting killed you don't have any empathy?
The real end to this is when people stop being guided by hatred and revenge.
-
-
Go back to reddit, loser
-
-
The high death toll is intended as a warning of what will happen in The Hague if Netanyahu is ever indicted.
-
You either forgot an /s or to take your pills.
-
-
Oh, how terrible. If only someone could, I don't know, return the remaining hostages and end this. Or stop hiding among civilians. But no,...
PS - downvote away, those who wish Hummus to continue endangering civilians.
PPS - "Your boos mean nothing. I've seen what makes you cheer."
-
So next time there is a school shooting in america, and the shooter is hiding in the school, we can just bomb the school? I mean, the shooter could have just let the kids go or stop hiding among them. But no...
-
we can just bomb the school?
"Seems safer than going in, I guess": Uvalde Police
-
That is an excellent analogy to illustrate why this isn't a black-and-white situation. Well done, have an upvote!
-
You're better than that. The two have nothing to do with each other.
-
-
So what’s an acceptable number of innocent people being murdered to recover other innocent people, in this instance four?
Is 100 acceptable? 1000? 10000? Everybody?
As per your P.S. How come you don’t see the same from the Israelis, they’re endangering civilians too?
What the IDF is doing is terroristic, as is what Hamas has done. So either you’re for terrorism or against it, you can’t say it’s ok for one side and not the other.
The fact is Israel is an apartheid state and they have been stealing land for decades. What would you do if you were a victim of this?
Furthermore, the hostages could have been returned many time with any one of the ceasefire deals on the table, but the Israeli government want blood not the hostages.
-
You deserve an answer. An acceptable number of innocents, in a perfect world, is Zero. But who is in control of that? Hummus.
As per your P.S. How come you don’t see the same from the Israelis, they’re endangering civilians too?
"Whataboutism" is lame.
The fact is Israel is an apartheid state and they have been stealing land for decades. What would you do if you were a victim of this?
Probably not invade, kill and kidnap innocent people, and run away to hide among women and children. But that's me. Obviously it's okay for Hummus /s
What the IDF is doing is terroristic, as is what Hamas has done. So either you’re for terrorism or against it, you can’t say it’s ok for one side and not the other.
See above.
Furthermore, the hostages could have been returned many time with any one of the ceasefire deals on the table, but the Israeli government want blood not the hostages.
It's too late for that, and Hummus knows it. They could have returned the hostages, but they need to go away. They've already stated their goal is to delete Israel, so Israel should just... what? Let the terrorists live and regrow. Also, Israel is proving that if Hummus doesn't return the hostages, Israel will take them back anyway - and there will be unfortunate casualties because of where Hummus hides, behind women and children. Tough shit for them, I guess, but with Hummus pissing themselves while cowering behind them, they don't leave much choice.
And let's not forget, if Hummus is hiding among women and children, women and children could choose to live and turn those assholes in, or overpower them, or... is there an anti-Hummus underground in Gaza? There should be.
-
The acceptable number of Hamas-Voters is: as many as it takes.
Terrorism must not be rewarded. The gazans voted Hamas into power, they were celebrating on oct 7th. But now that they are the ones under attack, suddenly they don't want to play anymore. But they obviously also don't want to exchange the hostages!
-
-
Netanyahu has said repeatedly since November that even if all hostages are released he will not stop the war. He turned down multiple ceasefire deals where all the hostages would be returned in exchange for aid. Your comment is simply incorrect.
-
Quite right! Hamas has pulled this shit far too often. For years they've attacked and then run and hide on the playground under women's skirts. Rinse and repeat. Finally, Hamas has done this once too often. Israel has a big job hunting them down. This time, they get smacked down for good. So what's not to like?
Hamas HAS to go, no two ways about it. The people of Gaza however can have a good discussion with Israel, and quite frankly the assistance of the world, when the war is over.
-
-
Rick and Morty quote, real ironic
-
everyone gather around, Da_Baby_Killa_1488@lemmy.world has arrived to give his very brave opinion on this massacre.
-
Oh how terrible if only someone could, I don't know, return all the stolen land back to the Palestinians and end this.....
Also it's incredibly fucking naive that you think hamas freeing their hostages would end this instead of just giving israel more reason to bomb indiscriminately.
-
They'll just build a military base, right? On what land with what resources? I don't support Hamas' methodology, but I'm not an idiot who regurgitates Israeli propaganda either.
-
Dropped this in another thread, feel it's applicable here.
https://stratcomcoe.org/cuploads/pfiles/hamas_human_shields.pdf
EXECUTIVE SUMMARY
Hamas, an Islamist militant group and the de facto governing authority of the Gaza Strip, has been using human shields in conflicts with Israel since 2007. According to the Statute of the International Criminal Court (ICC), the war crime of using human shields encompasses “utilizing the presence of a civilian or other protected person to render certain points, areas, or military forces immune from military operations.” Hamas has launched rockets, positioned military-related infrastructure-hubs and routes, and engaged the Israeli Defense Forces (IDF) from, or in proximity to, residential and commercial areas.
The strategic logic of human shields has two components. It is based on an awareness of Israel’s desire to minimise collateral damage, and of Western public opinion’s sensitivity towards civilian casualties. If the IDF uses lethal force and causes an increase in civilian casualties, Hamas can utilise that as a lawfare tool: it can accuse Israel of committing war crimes, which could result in the imposition of a wide array of sanctions. Alternatively, if the IDF limits its use of military force in Gaza to avoid collateral damage, Hamas will be less susceptible to Israeli attacks, and thereby able to protect its assets while continuing to fight. Moreover, despite the Israeli public’s high level of support for the Israeli political and military leadership during operations, civilian casualties are one of the friction points between Israeli left-wing and right-wing supporters, with the former questioning the outcomes of the operation.
-
PS - downvote away, those who wish Hummus to continue endangering civilians.
Took a chance to be racist? Soo cool dude
-
"Popular culture Hummus is often seen as an unofficial "national dish" of Israel" - Wikipedia. The use of the term does not indicate nationality, but is meant to denigrate "Hamas". And I would have got away with it, too, if it weren't for you kids.
-
If only someone could, I don’t know, return the remaining hostages and end this
It will end when Israel ceases to exist, hasbara. Doesn't look like that's going to be taking all that long, either.
-