Ex-Porsche Lawyer Sentenced After Throwing Her Newborn Out Window So It Wouldn't Disrupt Her Career

Fuck dude.
- I know, I'm awful. At least I had the decency to edit out the last panels.
Ok I legitimately laughed at this. Well done, sir.
Please repost that as its own meme, this is gold!
- WDYM "its own meme"? Comedy is all about context, and this meme is only perfect because it's in the context of this story.

What the fuck

Sounds pretty awful, but remember that prosecutors don't have ESP. So "prosecutors claim she didn't want to jeopardize her career" is not the same as "she didn't want to jeopardize her career".

It's not like she wrote in her diary "Today I killed my newborn because I thought it would interfere with work."
- Yea I don't think many are as focused on the motivation part as much as the lady defenestrating a fuckin baby.
Exactly..
I know. I need eye bleach after reading that headline.
What the fuck I just read ?

This just sounds like post partum depression to me.

Post partum psychosis.
I can't even begin to understand what it's like inside a woman's brain after childbirth. My wife struggled through it and came out ok. I'm glad I could help her.
- I read that the hormone swing from pregnancy to "back to normal" the month or so after is the fastest swing in hormones a human can experience.
  
  It can absolutely fuck up your brain during that time + lack of sleep + stress. It's a recipe for this kind of thing.
You're all rational and empathetic about this smh
- That's definitely how I try to be! 😊
"Just"

As fucked up as this is, there's so little information given by this article that I can't even form an opinion on it.

My current take is babies should not be thrown out of windows
- Sure that was my initial impression too, but I think I am going to sleep on it and maybe take some polls or study the matter more deeply. Can't be too rash when judging someone for tossing a baby out of a window.
- Personally I like to listen to all sides
- Fucking extremist!
- You say that but it's well known some of them babies are out to get ya
Feels clickbait but it got me going for a minute haha

You know what else I bet would jeopardize her professional career?

Also that's murder, not manslaughter.

7.5 years of jail?
- Ding ding ding we have a winner!
  
  And the social consequences of course

Least psychopathic lawyer

Those speed runners find the weirdest bugs in the simulation

Holy fuck lol

This is sad, and it’s a shame the prosecutors are only going to be interested in a conviction. This woman is obviously suffering, and needs medical help for her postpartum depression.

https://www.theatlantic.com/family/archive/2018/09/postpartum-psychosis-infanticide-when-mothers-kill-their-children/569386/

birth took place ten minutes prior to the tragic incident

Bro got spawn-killed

Hmmm. It looks like Germany has fairly strict limits on the availability of abortion; it's on-demand up to 12 weeks, but requires mandatory counseling first. It seems like perhaps expanding abortion access to on-demand up to the point of realistic fetal viability and eliminating the counseling requirement might--might--have led to a different outcome here.

I wonder if she had attempted to terminate her pregnancy prior to this point?

For the people saying that she should have just adopted the infant: that's extremely difficult for someone to do, even if they know that they don't want a child or are not capable of caring for it. I've seen multiple teens end up keeping children that they didn't plan on, didn't want, and had no means to care for, all because they couldn't go through with an adoption in the end.

The government has called up an expert committee and asked for their opinion on potential reforms.

The report came in April, and it strongly suggests making it actually legal in the first 12 weeks (it is currently only decriminalized) and getting rid of the mandatory counseling. They leave it up to the lawmakers to deal with week 12 to 22 (where the fetus starts being able to sustain itself).

The government has not yet started on n implementing this, however.
If you can't stand to give your baby up, you're also not going to be willing to throw it out the window
Permanently Deleted
- she threw one out of a moving vehicle.
  
  Building. She threw it out of her apartment.

Lots of heartless people in the comments who didn't read her side of this. Honestly, I sympathize with her almost entirely.

She didn't know she was pregnant. This is something that happens to women of her size sometimes. Not all pregnancies have the telltale symptoms. Sometimes you learn about your pregnancy as you're going into labor.

It's rare, but it absolutely happens.

She went from having a normal evening, to giving a natural birth alone in her apartment in a matter of about 20 minutes. She went from thinking she was having cramps to holding her newborn baby.

Within 10 minutes the baby had been dropped out of a window.

The amount of trauma this woman experienced, combined with the extreme and often immediate postpartum mental health issues, including psychosis, absolutely led to her making a completely irrational and tragic decision. I find it hard to swallow that she deserves punishment as if this were a long thought out plan to kill a child. This was a poorly handled crisis handled by a traumatized woman in a fugue state. She was not in a sound state of mind.

She doesn't deserve prison, she deserves compassion for what she's suffered and treatment for her mental ailments.

That they interrogated her and used her panic over her career against her as if she schemed to kill a child to further her career is honestly a disgusting angle to try to punish this woman. They opportunistically grilled a woman experiencing trauma so that they could throw the book at her.

She murdered a baby. She needs rehabilitation, help, sure, but it doesn't get much worse than baby killing, imo.
- She was convicted of manslaughter, not murder. Even the courts that I am criticizing aren't going as far as you.
  
  Regardless, whatever emotional response you have to the death of the baby shouldn't matter in comparison to the circumstances and motives leading to it.
  
  Your zero-tolerance for "baby killing" is what lands women in prison for miscarriages.

Please give your children up for adoption instead, what the fuck

I guess she didn’t think infanticide would hurt it? She’s clearly not a good lawyer.

We need to make it so women don't have to feel this way..I thought Germany was fairly progressive like that, but obviously not enough.

I mean sure but I think there's a few extra steps between "feeling" this way and fucking doing it.
You can give someone access to all the help they need, but if they don't seek it out, there's not much you can do about it. It sounds like post partum depression may have played a role, that is real, but you can't force someone into treatment.
- She threw the baby off the window 10 minutes after giving birth.
I hope you'll agree with me that there are alternatives before throwing your newborn baby off the window as if it was a fucking napkin.

Even abandoning it in front of a church is more humane than what this bitch did.
- Don't know this lady's story. But post natal psychosis is a real tragic thing that can happen. This isnt the action of someone possessing their faculties.
  
  Why when abortion is available would you carry to term -and then so impulsively act? If for whatever reason she didn't want the baby and couldn't get the abortion, she had months to come up with a better plan than 'throw it out a window'. Either she was undiagnosed with something the whole time, or the birth triggered a psychological episode imo.
- Who throws napkins out the window?
- Yes, she's obviously seriously disturbed, but the situation of women either having a career or family is the driver behind her actions. There needs to be systematic support so women can have the same opportunities as men.
No amount of progressivism can stop people from getting mental illnesses.
Interesting take. I wonder if the headline was:

"New Father and former Porsche Executive Throws Newborn Off Balcony"

Your first thoughts would be how the system failed him and that Germany needs to do more to support fathers.
- It is a bit depressing how many guys in this thread don't understand what pregnancy and childbirth can do to someone. Side effects may include: suicidal and homicidal urges. Google Postpartum Psychosis and Postpartum Depression.
  
  Everyone is asking but why didn't she act in a sane way and give it up for adoption? Well, there are good odds she needed something prescribed to her to allow her to be sane. Pregnant people's bodies are undergoing major chemical changes, labor opens the floodgates. Which is why it is very important to make it easy and stigma free to let everyone out of the queue who does not want to ride the ride, and make healthcare accessible to those that do.
- Not sure what your point is.

Let's set aside motive and treat this woman's obvious problem with her mental health. The last thing she needs is criminal proceedings and punishment that achieves nothing apart from getting conservative dicks hard.

I'm not sure she's actually wrong in the part about it Jeopardizing her career, because let's face it sometimes that's true. However did that not occur to her before she had the child? Surely she should have known that and not had a kid if that was her main priority.

Or, she's a lawyer for a luxury car company....

So hire a god damn nanny?

This is horrifying. Unfortunately this is a problem because most countries do not allow abortion after a certain period of pregnancy; and there is oftentimes no exceptions to this that isn't "a Rape charge on someone they might have slept with."

This means that certain women can get "stealth-ed" by someone¹ and not realize they're pregnant until they're too late past the abortion deadline because of their biology and inexperience with being pregnant. It's also random and uncommon enough that authorities and lawmakers do not make accommodations for this situation.

¹ - This also includes other situations such as uncommon birth control failures.

In this case; anti-abortion laws are intended to be cruel.

Unfortunately, women who are unknowingly pregnant also can't get help. I think it's likely the woman did not know she was pregnant until some point nearing the birth in the 8th or 9th month. If you're a woman who isn't native to the country, don't know it's laws, don't know where to get help and stuck on a business trip or company provided residency visa; I could see how easily one could be quite panicked.

I don't think she did the right thing. Unfortunately it's a rare case of some grey areas which too often we tend to treat like a black area of wrong.

This was a lawyer for a huge corporation… of anyone on the planet are you implying she just lacked access to an abortion? This woman is the most socially able example you could imagine…

I am extremely pro-choice. That implies a choice of a woman over her body. Not a choice to murder a born and living person, just cause of the situation or someone’s thought processes.

It may be hard to understand for people who think a mass of cells that would die without the mother living is an independent person who deserves to live regardless of if it kills the mother…

But I got to say you are doing a disservice to what pro-choice means.

Feels weird attaching pro-choice positions to a rich woman who threw a baby out the window instead of giving it up for adoption. That’s a disservice to the argument that poor people should have a choice in the first place.
To be fair, while abortion is technically not legal in Germany there are various allowances that essentially make it legal with restrictions. It is also for the most part less controversial than for example the united states. As for the restrictions: permitted within the first 12 weeks, after an advisement appointment with a doctor and a 3 day consideration period. For women with low income the mandatory health insurance covers the procedure, the restrictions also do not apply in cases of rape or health risk to the mother.

I guess what I am saying is that the woman really had no excuse not to have an abortion or give birth and then give up the child for adoption. Fucking heinous crime, especially for something as mundane as what sounds like a mid level bureaucrat job.
I wonder if it was regret so much as a perinatal mood disorder or even postpartum psychosis. Very very sad. Until there's evidence supporting the claim I think it's best to give the benefit of the doubt.
There's also women that simply end up not loving their baby and society pressuring them to be happy can lead them to be miserable and to take bad decisions like in this case. People need to start feeling comfortable talking about that because it's more common than some people would like to believe and these women should feel comfortable considering adoption even if it wasn't their plan when they got pregnant.

Even trying to look for articles on the subject is pretty much impossible in English while I find more info in my first language...
While all that is definitely reasonable, it's a pretty big leap from "the law prevented me from getting an abortion" to "I'mma just yeet this baby out the window."

Those ideas are so far apart as to not even remotely justify one another, right?

Like, if someone gets cut off in traffic, and they get mad and mow down a dozen pedestrians, it'd be insane to be like, "Well, you have to understand, he got cut off real bad. Mowing down pedestrians is clearly wrong, but there's definitely some real grey area there."
- Pregnancy and birth normally is traumatic and fucks you up. Your brain is doing wild things chemically and drowning in hormones, that sometimes actually push people into a temporary insanity. People with postpartum psychosis can become violent to themselves and others, hallucinate, have delusions, etc. It happens ~2 out of 1,000 births. And is more likely if the person had an untreated mental health problem beforehand. Getting angry that somebody cut you off is not a medical thing. Psychosis 10 minutes after labor usually is.

You're a fucking lawyer for a prestigious car brand. Surely hiring a god damn nanny was a better solution than child murder?

Take a week off, go to the hospital to get yourself and baby checked out. While in hospital, order a car seat. They'll probably give you some diapers and an outfit or blanket.

Then, when you leave the hospital, head to fire dept and place baby in the "need a baby, take a baby, have a baby, leave a baby" box.
- I know you're being facetious, but this was in Germany where workers actually have rights to take a week off, and healthcare is freer than breadsticks.

Jesus. I thought this was an onion article.

They don't have birth control in Germany?

They don't have adoption in Germany?
- That too, but if I were this adamant about having kids, I'd make damn sure I don't have one in the first place.
Abortion.

So, I'm guessing abortion is banned or banned early in Germany?

It's complicated. Basically it's illegal, but there's exceptions. The one exception that makes this law very weak, is that it isn't illegal anymore if you got counseling at a place specialised for it.

Rape and medicinic reasons are also exceptions and counseling with the doctor is enough in that case.

It also has to happen in the first 90 days after getting pregnant.
- This is a very complicated and backwards way of saying: it's not illegal, you're required to talk to a specialized counselor first though. That's also frankly not an un reasonable requirement.
  
  It's not that complicated.
She claims she didn't know she was pregnant.
- Did she not know about adoption either?

I'm surprised the FSB hasn't scouted her already

People without kids are often discriminated against when it comes to raises and promotions. Maybe I should move to Germany. Or just grow a pair and lie, what's stable diffusion for anyway.

Well, that is mind-blowingly awful.

Insane. I can't imagine a woman doing that to her own newborn baby. Defenestrating a baby would also ruin her career, so I guess she has a lot of other things going into that decision.

It's not a logical decision.
- My point exactly.

I hope she has real hard time in prison

Defence attorney Malte Hoech, 53, presented a contrasting view, arguing that the incident was a tragic accident. Hoech claimed Jovanovic was unaware of her pregnancy and overwhelmed by the sudden birth.

So your client is intelligent enough to earn a law degree and achieve a high rank at a prestigious multi-national, but too stupid to figure out she's preggers? Yeah, that's believable.

it actually is. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neonaticide?wprov=sfla1 has a bit to say on it, but doesn't go too much into the root causes. The majority of cases as far as I understand it stem from the mother not wanting to accept that she is pregnant. This is a delusion, mind you, and if untreated, can have dire consequences as shown here. To mothers who are not adequately prepared for birth (because they, for whatever reason, have repressed their pregnancy), giving birth must be about as traumatizing as if I were to wake up tomorrow with a third leg (that wants to be fed).

The German-language coverage of this is also very hit and miss. most outlets, like here, put an emphasis on here being a Porsche lawyer, which is a) bending the truth somewhat for shock value (she's a contract counsel for their financing subsidiary iirc) and b) completely irrelevant, as other outlets point out that this pathological behavior does not know class boundaries.
- Thanks for that very reasoned response
I've known some workaholics, And they can be pretty oblivious to everything that isn't in the lane of their work life. Their own health, already born children, basic life stuff, etc.. Also stress induced amenorrhea is a thing .

This psycho should absolutely go to prison. But it's possible she's at least being honest.
- Interesting take. I'm open to it. Thanks.