FediLore + Fedidrama @lemmy.ca Beaver @lemmy.ca 3mo ago

Lemmy world vegan community - hostile takeover

cross-posted from: https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/26218551

cross-posted from: https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/26218550

(posting to both communities)

A carnist lemmy world instance admin has stepped in and meatsplained to the mods while restoring comments that violated the community's rules. They deleted comments that they did not agree with, citing 'misinformation', and threatened to demod the mods if those comments were removed again. The comments were deleted and the admin was banned from the community as per violating the rules of the community, that was until they unbanned themselves (admin abuse) and unmodded two of the moderators because of "promoting harmfull actions against pets".

As far as it stands, if the lemmy world community wasn't already not a safe vegan place for you (it really wasn't) it most certainly isn't now as carnists (lemmy world instance admin) currently mod it.

I suggest any vegan who wants a safe and welcoming space to come and interact with vegantheoryclub.org. Sorry for any inconvienance that this may have caused. I am deeply upset at the admins actions today and don't condone them whatsoever.

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101 comments

Meatsplained? Sucks you guys lost your community, but that is one of the dumbest words I've ever had the privilege of reading.
- That's exactly what a carnist blood-mouth would say! /s
  
  (I am a vegan, but the insults that I have seen from the vegan communities here are all hilarious)
  
  That would be a good band name, "Blood-Mouth and the Carnists" opening for "The Meatsplainers"!
  
  I don't really prefer car so i'm more of a commutenist
- I cracked up when I read it.
  
  Vegans and anti vegans seem to spend a lot of time on names
- Seriously. I stopped reading after "meatsplained" and now am rooting for the admin.
  
  To me this is a case where a mod didn’t know what an admin is and found out the hard way.
- You mean community.
  
  I don't feel like fixing it
Was this some dumbass saying dogs and cats can be fine with a vegan diet? Because that is 100% Grade A bullshit and the admin's actions were justified.
- Have you looked at the research. Idk about cats, but research suggests for dogs it is okay. Dogs aren’t wolves anymore.
- Dogs can survive and thrive on a vegan diet, as long as it's fairly carefully tailored; dogs are not obligate carnivores, and the essential amino acids that they can't make themselves are available from non-animal sources.
  
  Cats are obligate carnivores; the only natural source for at least one essential amino acid they need is meat. (I'm not sure which amino acid(s) it is, off the top of my head. Taurine? Lysine? Something else?) In theory you could heavily supplement a cat that was on a vegan diet and not kill it, but given that bioavailability of supplements isn't the same as that of whole foods, I wouldn't bet a life on it.
- Please do not use ad hominems in your argument as we need to keep the discussion civil.
  
  There are numerous studies suggesting that the plant-based diet is safe for dogs.
  
  However for cats there are less studies, there are papers that suggest it is also safe for cats as long as taurine is provided in the diet.
  
  That's not an ad hominem, just a regular insult.
Feed your pets their fucking meat for God's sake.
- Meat is not required for pets as there is enough studies to suggest this conclusion. 1 billion people are employed in animal agriculture so there is a strong conflict of interest occurring here.
  
  Cats are obligate carnivores. If they don't eat meat, they will get sick and die. This doesn't apply to dogs.
  
  Veganism is valid, but it does conflict with some pet ownership.
  
  Meat is not required for pets as there is enough studies to suggest this conclusion.
  
  Bold claims require bold evidence. Natural meat eaters should naturally eat meat. To say otherwise requires a loooot of evidence.
For what it worth, the mods at vegan community are also deleting comment disagreeing with their point of view. It's one thing to accuse rooki for power abuse, which i tend to agree as admin should be impartial to their ruling and not demote/remove based on emotion, but it's ironic that the mod also did the exact same thing they accuse rooki for. Lesson here is, don't fucking abuse power based on your emotion and then whine about it after losing that privilege. It's a very highschool drama this one is.
- Every vegan community I’ve ever visited has been such a strong echo chamber that they give atheists a run for their money.
  
  They will not tolerate discussion that is not in full agreement.
  
  Just ignore the vegans like you ignore a random person on the street yelling about some nonsense.
- It is a vegan community you’re talking about it should appeal to vegans and to the safety of animals first and foremost. People were coming into our community promoting violence against the other animals.
  
  Experiment on yourself all you want, but not your companion who depends on you. This is not a great subject to gather support from a larger audience with.
  
  That being said, controversial subjects need to be discussed, not deleted. Nobody was intentionally trying to harm animals here. These actions don't feel right
  
  I don't care what community we're talking about, we're discussing powermod/poweradmin here so i do care about the action of the mod and if you think just because you're vegan you get to be exempted by common sense, then you're mistaken. People are talking about food for pets, not for human consumption, it's still a hot topic that you yourself said it's less studied and can't even be sure if it's safe to do so, discussion amongst the community are needed, not swept under the rug. You guys are getting criticised here not because of being vegan, but because of the action you guys take, stop using veganism as your shield and looking like a bunch of imbecile.
  
  People said veganism isn't a religion but this looks more and more like one.
The comments were deleted and the admin was banned from the community as per violating the rules of the community

It’s a bold strategy Cotton
I'm just surprised how many people think veganism and 'owning' a pet are reproachable. Imho they are not

On top of that if you do 'own' an animal, why do you let your own philosophy trump their joy and wellbeing.

Afaik cats and dogs couldn't be happier with a meaty treat. Why disallow that?
- Pets are not vegan in the first place but only 5% of vegans will admit that.
  
  I literally banned the lemmy world instance admin for saying otherwise, but they reversed it. "Owning" another animal is not vegan and is speciesist. I've only seen carnists go on about "vegan pet ownership".
Honestly, the admin that did this is based. The vegans on Lemmy give me the same vibes as the grifters that pedal homeopathy.
I think I trust Kitten Lady over a bunch of randos on the Threadiverse. Video

gerbils, mice and bunbuns are herbivores, and need homes too. They‘d make great vegan buddies
- I watched your video, and she makes a number of logical errors. She correctly identifies that cats need diets that are nutritionally complete, but then jumps to the conclusion that cats need to eat meat. They don't. They need to consume the nutrients that have traditionally been found in meat. She overlooks that vegan cat foods are specifically designed to contain all these nutrients, thus making them nutritionally complete.
  
  While I generally agree that vegans shouldn't adopt cats if possible, Kitten Lady seems to be talking out of her ass.
- Don’t trust randos on the internet you should read studies on the matter.
  
  Okay, I'll start by not trusting you.
  
  Not once have you linked to any of those studies you keep referring to.
Isn't this par for the course for lemmy.world?
It's so funny that they're the largest instance. Only see incredible decisions coming out of there.
- I actually agree in general, but this is like the one time in recent memory I have felt like whole heartedly cheering on the Lemmy.world administration team
  
  If some other instance wants to scoop up the animal abuse demographic now that they are ejected from .world, I think we will all survive
  
  Ah yes, its the people that are against harming animals that are the real animal abusers.
  
  Feeding an animal a nutrionally complete diet: abuse
  
  killing animals: not abuse
  
  If some other instance wants to scoop up the animal abuse demographic now that they are ejected from .world, I think we will all survive
  
  Veganism is a philosophy and way of living that excludes all forms of animal exploitation and promotes animal-free alternatives.
  
  That is misrepresenting the situations as vegans are the ones reducing animal abuse by not buying animals products and for holding those who do accountable.
Seeing vegans and the Lemmy.World admin team fighting... yes, let the hate flow through you and destroy each other.
- Well for us vegans we're fighting for love. The animals deserve to be protected.
  
  not a vegan but you should be able to have your own space.
  
  Then feed them a proper diet. If you love animals, treat them well and don't fight for your right to spread disinformation that harms them
If you need a vegan pet get a bunny, lol.

Not feeding dogs and cats with meat-based food is cruel af.
I think @Rooki@lemmy.world owes an explanation and apology. It's fine to be invested in animal welfare, but if one learns that one is factually incorrect, then admitting it openly is the mature and responsible thing to do.
- edit: Edited my response in the original post.
  
  My cousin is a vet. She’s a vegan. Her cat is not nor would she ever make her cat a vegan. It just isn’t good for cats.
  
  That is true that cats are obligate carnivore however the plant-based diet is safe for cats as long as the nutrient taurine is being provided in their food.
  
  We live in a day where a healthy diet can be fully synthesized, even for a human. I think the claim that a cat cannot flourish under one requires strict scrutiny and proper links to scientific articles demonstrating this finding.
  
  edit: Because we do have evidence indicating such a diet is not harmful, so evidence that disputes this would need to exist.
  
  https://www.mdpi.com/2306-7381/10/1/52
  
  edit2: Another thing that occured to me that may help shed light on this: Humans have to eat food in order to survive, yes?
  
  No, actually. We can hook you up to an IV and keep you alive for as long as we need by pumping the necessary nutrients directly into your bloodstream, bypassing your digestive tract altogether. We call this intravenous feeding.
carnist misinformation

meatsplained

Lmao are these people serious
Sorry for all the hate your getting because some people’s brains are programmed to think vegan=bad. Sounds like a major overstep by admins.
- They're not being downvoted for their veganism, they're being downvoted for their defence of animal abuse.
  
  (Same reason the lemmy.world admin seems to have taken these actions; as much as I despise lemmy.world admins and their attempts to bring everything bad from reddit to lemmy, in this particular case they seem to have been in the right, if maybe excessively hamfisted as they tend to be).
Well, I don't feel strongly either way for the specific issue at hand but this is drama llama content for sure!

The cool part of the Fediverse, if this is an issue that fellow vegans can't see eye to eye on, then we could have two communities, possibly on two instances. One which believes animal welfare means that domesticated animals shouldn't participate in killing other animals, viewing it as unecessary and cruel, and the other community that doesn't and only considers human nutrition choices, with the view that forcing change in domesticated animals' diets as unnatural and cruel.

Like it or not, each server's admins determine the shape of discussion and can make the final decisions on some items of discourse in situations like this, call it carnist, tankie, whatever pejorative of choosing. The recourse is to move elsewhere.
Thanks for getting the word out about this, Beaver! With this and the pro-Zionist so-called 'media bias fact check', LW is turning to shit. I strongly dislike the anonymity of the actioning mod in the mod log. Can you name the PoS who decided to abuse their power to attack a vegan community? I'm not a fan of the theoryclub due to experiences with one mod, but I'll be on the ML and solarpunk vegan communities!
lmao at all the carnists in this thread scrambling to justify animal abuse so they can still feel like a good person
- Not feeding cats and dogs meat is animal abuse.
  
  Eating cows is not.
  
  Thanks for listening to my TED talk.
  
  Well I don't deny my dogs meat, so I'm not sure what you're on about. Every week, I adopt a dog from the local shelter, kill it, butcher it, put it in the freezer, and serve my dogs their daily food from that. I'm not denying animals food at all. So what the hell is your problem with that?
This post is calling for the accountability on the actions of the admin in question
Sounds like victim blaming imo
- Rule 2, "not about vegans or veganism" btw. Feed your pets correctly, stop trying to make them fit your philosophy. You want a vegan pet, there is hundreds of them out there already. Stop harming your cats people.

101 comments