Eating less beef is a climate solution. Here's why that's hard for some American men

I made this decision a couple years ago. Gave up milk (switched to oat milk), but I still eat cheese and yogurt. I eat probably 20% of the red meat per year that I used to.

You don’t have to be a rabid vegan to make an impact.

But its much easier to hate vegans and pretend theyre the problem
- Vegans are the problem? What problem? Causing climate change, or eating too much red meat? Your comment makes no sense.
- That would depend on the vegan.
- They aren't the problem, but a good 10% of them are loud and annoying as hell, with no one wanting to hear them. They're Karen's.
This is such a good attitude! I cut all meat out of my diet a long time ago, and when I mention it, people often say something like "I'd love to but I couldn't commit to never having meat again".

You don't have to! It's amazing if you do, but you're still gonna make a sizable impact on the cause you care about if you reduce your intake.

It's odd that people don't have this with other issues, the idea of "reducing purchases of disposable plastic" or "buying fairtrade more" make total sense to people, but food is still often cashed out in these "all or nothing" terms.
- 100% spot on. I'm so tired of everything needing to be 100% or 0%. a 80% cut has an impact! so does 50%. we all need to do what we can, and not taking an extreme position doesn't make someone a sellout or faker or whatever. every little bit helps
- I think a lot of people have a problem admitting that the consumption of certain things causes harm, which is why they turn it into an all or nothing decision. But I believe in the principle of harm reduction, and not letting perfect be the enemy of ‘better’. Or put in a more positive light, ‘every little bit helps’.
You don’t have to be a rabid vegan to make an impact.

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/meat-production-tonnes?tab=chart&country=~OWID_WRL

the fact is that the industry continues to grow.
- I can only control my own choices. But that fact is one of the main reasons I made that choice. It’s not sustainable.

Imagine thinking toxic masculinity is a bigger problem for this issue than beef/dairy subsidies and entrenched market forces. Nice distraction piece, NPR.

I honestly believe the two are related. I think big meat agro business is paying influencers to promote toxic masculinity and push nonsense like "plants emit toxic hormones" on social media.
- Maybe, but that's just to keep demand anywhere near high enough to consume the products that subsidies ensure they will be producing anyways, so they can argue that the current subsidies are necessary.
Ok, but can we not acknowledge that this shit had an effect on the whole manly incel epidemic and those people are trying to take over the most poweful country on the planet and make sure those subsidies never end?

In 2006, when Malcolm Regisford was 10 years old, a Burger King commercial began playing on TVs across the country.

In it, a man in a restaurant looks at a small vegetarian dish, turns to face the camera, and bursts into song: “I am man, hear me roar!” The man flees the restaurant, denounces quiches and tofu — “chick food,” he sings — and quickly joins a throng of other singing men. They march through the streets with signs reading “I am man” and hamburgers held high. “The Texas double Whopper. Eat like a man, man,” a voice says.
- Incels gave up on being "manly enough". Their whole schtick is that its "un-fair" that "only the manliest men get laid", and that they believe they deserve sex just for being born with a dick.
  
  I'm not saying all the "red-pill"/"sigma-pill"/"incel" groups/narratives don't feed into eachother, but you've gotta realize these people are already in the minority. It's not their influence keeping the subsidies going, it's the public's wallets keeping demand just high-enough to "justify" the subsidies, and the fact that the subsidies are backed by decades of established law.
  
  There is no point trying to reason with the die-hards that will keep on consuming long after increased prices drive the rest of us away from beef consumption. The subsidies that keep their bull-shit lifestyles affordable and convenient should be the focus of our efforts.
  
  Let them waste more money on being single and lonely. Their pocket-books will shout at them louder and more convincingly than the rest of us ever could.
If it's purely on subsidies, then why, as stated in the article, are men consuming disproportionately more beef than women? Am I missing out on my secret man meat tax cut?
- Yeah, i think that research might be missing some context...
  
  https://www.news-medical.net/news/20240618/Study-finds-men-eat-meat-more-often-than-women-especially-in-gender-equal-developed-countries.aspx
  
  Meat consumption by males goes up when you have a developed nation, it's almost purely economic, stupid to try to make this part of the culture war considering how small these communities are and their median ages.
  
  "Economic factors explain the influence of human development since meat production costs are higher than plant-origin food production. Nations with more resources provide more options for individuals to buy and eat beef. The findings build on comparable studies with psychological traits and help rule out reference group effects as a possible reason."
- Yes, you're missing that subsidies ensure the same amount of beef gets produced no matter the demand. In fact, that amount is set higher than demand. Demand is artificially increased due to the high availability and low prices resulting from these policies. Removing the subsidies would lower both Availability and Demand, as the lowered availability would increase prices.
  
  TL;DR: Consumption gender ratios have NOTHING to do with the amount of beef that is being produced, nor, therefore, its impacts on the environment.
  
  I can only restate the obvious so many times, and I HAVE already restated the facts on this at least twice prior to your question. Are you dense, or just insincere?

How about everyone who says it's the job of the little guy to fix the climate problem kicks a rock and governments, shipping companies, cruise lines, airlines, industrial farmers, etc PUT DOWN THE FORK.

Every individual in every country is not responsible for allowing year over year profits in industries that ignore the writing on the wall.

You can change what you do without input or veto from anyone else.

That is not true for governments.

You can do both. You can go vegan for the environment (if abuse of animals isn’t enough for you) AND vote for a/lobby the government for larger sweeping action.
- Sure.
  
  At the same time, I can enjoy a great steak every now and again, and I can travel with my children to make sure they know their great grandmother in a different country every two years. And I can do those things and not feel bad because 80% of the time we do our part. Corpos, by comparison, are not pulling their weight, and they are already most of the problem.
- You can change what you do without input or veto from anyone else.
  
  That is not true for governments.
  
  Sure it is. Close to death, and you feel your politicians failed you? Grab a bunch of explosives, walk into a government building, take it out on them like they've been taking it out on you. Same with any corpo.
  
  Vote with your 2nd amendment right to have a well regulated militia that can ensure the security of the state. Be that militia. Protect your state from the hyenas trying to kill it and feed on its corpse. It's what the founding fathers literally fucking intended.
  
  Be the change you wanna see in the world.
Beef consumption at current levels is unsustainable, I agree with your general principle but you're saying this as if everyone can continue to consume tons of beef every year. Whether industry, regulation, or individual action: you're not going to eat as much beef.

This isn't like recycling
- So if that's the problem, government should step in and limit beef production. Why rely on everyone to "do the right thing" to solve societal problems? That's why government exists.
Keep eating all the meat you want this planet well be better when this attitude dies off.

Not eating beef is pretty easy. Lots of alternatives.

I dropped beef and pork and stayed with turkey and fish.

Found a bunch of plant based options to replace the beef texture too.

It's really just some stupid mindset about STEAK that many Americans have.

I'm not vegan, and not trying to say people should be vegan. I love me a good steak, but I was out with some vegan friends, and we went to a vegan restaurant. They served me something that was doing an excellent impression of a steak. Good enough that if I knew which various plant protein they were using, I'd make that at home.

Burgers they have down these days, and eating veggies burgers allows me to have more meals a week without meat. Same for most sausages. I don't know how they did it, but I had a vegan brat that had a snappy "skin."

The more obsessed you are with the trappings of manhood the more everyone knows you're faking it

Hell who can afford beef anymore?

A lot of Americans.

I just buy from a local farmer. 1/2 cow and 1/2 pig feed my family for a year.
To get the same amount of meat from a commercial butcher it'd take probably hundreds of not thousands of animals.

Pigs are the only animal I struggle with eating, morally. Cows are gentle but really dumb and I don't have moral issues about eating birds.

What do you mean a commercial butcher will need thousands of animals to produce the same amount of meat as a half cow locally? I haven't heard an argument that a little meat from a bunch of animals is ethically any different than a lot of meat from one animal, just curious.
Pigs are the only animal I struggle with eating, morally.

Yeah, they're pretty intelligent and emotionally aware, at least as much as your average dog.

My only care is that cow meat tastes damned good. KC strip steaks, smoked brisket, and hamburger in its many forms.

If it can taste like that, then I almost don't care where it comes from.

Almost?
- I don't want to eat cats, dogs, people, shit, cockrraches, and probably many other things. Lol.
Yeah, also milk, there's no replacement yet. When I read almonds/oats milk, I got to puke. How can anyone believe it tastes like milk, let alone taste good? Do they not notice that very bitter and awful taste it cointains or do they put extra double sugar into it to make it taste? Some people really have some strong self hypnosis going on or lack taste buds.

I gave them a chance, wholeheartedly and was so super disappointed on the taste, I thought people were trolling me.
- I guess I'll keep the trolling going then, because I've been switched to plant milk for a couple years—mostly oat, but I'll mix in some soy for protein, or coconut because yum. I don't drink it straight, it's mostly for cereal. I usually have a regular and a vanilla because each is good with different cereals. If you want the closest to "real" milk, about 80% (regular) oat and 20% coconut I think is pretty close. Silk makes what they call "One" milk that's pretty much that, but I like to experiment with the ratio myself. 😄
  
  Regular milk tastes... weird now. Slightly acidic almost? I can also feel that my gut doesn't like trying to digest it. (Almost like milk is supposed to be for infants, who'd've thunk? 😅)
  
  Almond milk though... BLECK. I can't stand it. Often watery, acidy, weird aftertaste, just like you said.

this is warmed-over poore-nemecek 2018. that's the primary basis for the claims about the climate, but the methodology of that study is fucked, and it's a disservice to actual climate science to keep touting this meta"study" that misuses its source material and myopically focuses on distilling data instead of understanding the complexity of our agricultural systems. the textile industry's water use, land use, and emissions, i guarantee, are being counted in poore-nemecek as emissions from beef. i didn't pull out the data from the separate reference to water use, but i will eat my hat if that doesn't, as well.

eating less beef has not been effective at stopping the growth of the beef industry for all the people who have done so. we need a real solution, and trying to influence individual consumer choice isn't working.

edit: down voting doesn't change the truth