Return-to-office orders look like a way for rich, work-obsessed CEOs to grab power back from employees
Return-to-office orders look like a way for rich, work-obsessed CEOs to grab power back from employees
White-collar workers temporarily enjoyed unprecedented power during the pandemic to decide where and how they worked.
Return-to-office orders look like a way for rich, work-obsessed CEOs to grab power back from employees::White-collar workers temporarily enjoyed unprecedented power during the pandemic to decide where and how they worked.
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"These elite CEOs probably work 100-plus hours a week and they're much more work-focused."
No they don’t. Full stop. Let’s stop fabricating this bullshit. That’s 16hrs a day M-F with 10hrs Sat/Sun. Elon Musk is not doing those hours period, let alone while also finding time to play Elden Ring.
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Yeah people need to stop acting like they're the most hardworking people out there. They definitely are not. Especially when you can be CEO of multiple companies and no one bats an eye.
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Well, let's do some quick math. Let's count billable hours in a day with a minimum billable hour being 1 hour. If you work a 6 hour work day, and can complete the average task in 15 minutes, that works out to 24 possible billable hours in one day accounting for a total of 90 minutes of actual work.
So yeah, on paper it's actually really easy to "work" 100 hours per week
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Even if Elon Musk is putting in 100-hour weeks, he's the CEO of five companies, which means being CEO of one company is a half-time gig at most.
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Or 20%? 🤔
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Highly doubt he actually plays Elden Ring
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He played it enough to make one of the worst builds I've ever seen. A heavy rolling mage with two shields......
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CEOs DO NOT WORK HUNDRED HOUR WEEKS.
CEOs DO NOT WORK HUNDRED HOUR WEEKS.
CEOs DO NOT WORK HUNDRED HOUR WEEKS.
CEOs DO NOT WORK HUNDRED HOUR WEEKS.
NOBODY FUCKEN DOES, YOU'D BE A BRAIN DEAD ZOMBIE
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Yeah, on average they do around 60
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Its important to note what they consider work too. I'm sorry but spending half of your day getting to meetings and the other half in them is not the same as fixing a layer 3 issue on a critical app, or laboring all day in the sun at 60 hours a week. I don't subscribe to the idea that work is work. If that were true nobody would mind being a traffic controller over an office administrator.
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Talking about work during a business dinner does not equal hours. Thinking about work ideas after hours does not equal hours. Fostering a business connection does not equal work hours.
And if they do, then I get to count stressing in the shower, arguments in my head while I go for a walk, ranting to my partner about work problems, and keeping in touch with former coworkers.
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I can’t believe you’re getting downvoted for citing a Harvard study….
Here’s the link for the lazy. https://hbr.org/2018/07/how-ceos-manage-time#how-ceos-manage-time
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part of that 60 hours is 30 hours of
golftouch grass meetings
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My main take on the pandemic is that employers involuntarily gave their employees a huge benefit set by having to go remote. They had to give this benefit set not just to their buddies or a select few, but to people they consider undeserving or do not trust.
All of their moves since have reflected that they want to put the cat back in the bag.
It's not about productivity at all and never has been. The studies even called the bluff by comparing productivity and determined that productivity is higher with WFH. The reaction to that has been to ignore the data and lean back into gut feel, because high level management isn't really about productivity.
You can tell this simply by the fact that their natural environment is the office and very few things in an office environment are actually about productivity. The reason they want return to office is the same reason they wanted open offices: control. It's easier for them to hover behind you in an open office plan. It's easier for them to order you around when they don't have to call you first.
It's all about control, and likely always has been.
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As a manager, I can confirm that productivity drops in the office (even my own). I've got team members that choose to go to the office (moreso than me). I encourage them to work however they prefer, and want. You can work anywhere around the world however you wish, including at some nice beach, as long as it doesn't affect the project.
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You sound like a not-dickhead ;-)
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A lot of that control is about perceived obedience and perceived productivity.
In many areas you’ll find that ACTUAL productivity matters far less than perceived productivity.
And it’s easier to perceived productivity when you can walk a floor and see people work as you walk by.
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high level management isn't really about productivity
High level management is about preserving your position as a high level manager and securing the maximum compensation for it.
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As a manager who WFH, if managers are ineffective at their job, it's either that they suck, or their org structure causes them to suck.
If upper management wants a manager to manage 30 people, of course they will suck.
Keep the team to 8 max so the manager can actually do some hands on technical work as well.
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Of course, it could just be that middle management is obsolete but that doesn’t explain why the CEOs aren’t just
laying offSomeone has to suck someone's dick.
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Good, they'll be left with second rate wage slaves while other companies who trust their employees will be more productive and competitive as a result.
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They don’t care. They need to lead/rule over/command people. Second rate or not.
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So many don’t understand just how wildly inefficient bureaucratic hierarchies are; what happens isn’t the most profitable thing, it’s the whim of whoever managed to claw their way highest up.
Basically, the decisions are the manifestation of the artificial stupidity of brute force.
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Trust. You’re right, it completely comes down to trust. If you can’t trust the people you hire to work without someone looming over them or watching everything they do, then you shouldn’t have hired that person.
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Plus, if you hire someone and have work for them - either the work gets done (and ideally it's high quality work of course) or it doesn't. There are actual meaningful metrics. Asses in seats just isn't one of them.
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Managers are managers because they're good at playing power games, not because they're good at their jobs. These games are harder to play if people aren't there. That's why they're so scared.
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When I got my newest job the boss was bragging about I can work as much overtime as I want at 1.5x. like bitch I want undertime, let me work less!
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As a manager, I empower my team to work remotely as much as possible 🤷
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Rule for my team is I don’t care where you are as long as shit gets done and I can find you if I need you.
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Some managers are actually really good at resolving conflicts without bias and keeping the team functioning smoothly. In tech at least, people who make things aren't always that great at interacting with other people.
Of course, the kind of manager I'm talking about doesn't care how/when/where the work gets done, and they don't micro-manage.
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OK OK, I'm not saying all managers are like that. But I've certainly met a lot of them in my time.
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Seems like the commercial real estate collapse has a lot to do with it too.
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Eh, that may play a role for the big firms, but most of the small to mid sized businesses just lease their real estate. They'd realistically come out ahead by downsizing their offices.
I think what we are seeing is management really struggling to adapt and find reliable metrics for performance management as well as to promote employee retention and engagement without the social bonds of an office culture.
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Small companies are often under long leases. Our landlord was quite flexible and let us break the lease if we did the work to find a new tenant, but most wouldn't be.
And yes we are coming out ahead, by quite a lot.. offices aren't cheap even the tiny one we tried to use temporarily.. have now ditched that and gone totally remote.
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How so?
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My understanding is as follows: A lot of corporate debt is backed by the real estate. For example, McDonald's food operations are far less valuable than its real estate portfolio. If that property is now worthless because no one wants it and it's unoccupied, banks now have assets worth less than what's owed on them. That in turn means when the loan term ends, banks can't just re-finance the debt, because the collateral that secured the loan in the first place isn't worth what the debt is. That means big problems for companies who now need those loans as a source of cash to pay off the old loans. They now have to scrape up actual cash to pay, leading to more austerity. Because corps can't pay the banks, the banks lose out on revenue, which means they have to tighten their belts, and so on and so on in a self-reinforcing spiral. If the corps default, the banks can seize the assets, but again, they're worthless, so it's a one-two punch.
It's a giant shell game, and from what I've read economists are afraid a 2008-style crash may be in the works due to the cycle of debt above.
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To add what other folks have said... Banks have a conflict of interest in regards to employees coming back into the office: They hold the mortgages on all that office space. If the work-from-home trend doesn't let up they stand to lose trillions of dollars.
The bigger the bank the more they stand to lose. This is why banks like Goldman Sachs are extremely vocal about bringing people back into the office and grasp at every little thing that can find to back their claims that, "it's better". Even if the arguments they're making are based on 100% bullshit.
Example: You'll often hear big bank executives say things like, "teams that work near each other work better" knowing full well that their global workforce doesn't actually "sit near each other". On any given internal team employees will live all over the damned world so even if every one of them came back into the office they still wouldn't be anywhere near each other.
We know this is 100% bullshit anyway because if they actually stood behind these words they'd issue mandates that huge amounts of employees be relocated to the same physical locations and that hiring could only happen locally. They're not going to do that though because they know what they're saying is bullshit.
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These elite CEOs probably work 100-plus hours a week and they're much more work-focused.
Oh ffs. I have nothing against Nick Bloom but this statement is so BS. Even if "elite CEOs" could work 24 hours per day, 7 days per week their salaries could not be justified by any means. There are just not enough hours in a day to actually do it.
The mandates symbolize the sharp disconnect right now between the way CEOs and employees think about work.
He's right about that though.
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When I was an intern at a large company, the CIO talked to our small group of interns. He said he worked around that much, and I don't think he was lying. He told us about his typical day.
The company was located in a big city and he lived in the suburbs with a long commute by taxi and train. He would get up at 5AM to start the commute. He worked on the train and taxi. Then he would leave the office at 5PM, work on the commute home, have dinner and family time for 2 hours, then work until bed at around midnight. He said he was lucky he only needed 4 hours of sleep and how much he treasured the 2 hours he spent with his family every day. It was the only time he refused to take calls.
I think part of the problem why executives mistreate their workers so much is that they themselves are overworked and exhausted. Despite having a ton of money, they don't get to enjoy it, so it becomes meaningless.
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And there's people out there who work just as much but will never make the same amount of money. When you have the privilege to never worry about cleaning, laundry, taking care of your kids, grocery shopping, cooking, and all the numerous bullshit things that just add up to consume your time that you can wave away when you were born rich allow you to do that. They don't consume your day and energy.
Not that everyone if suddenly given that kind of time would do what he does, but I don't think they should. I think he's the type of person who looking back on his deathbed will regret only spending 2 hours a day with his family. That's really sad.
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Some small number of people love being married to their work. And some of these people think since they enjoy it that others must feel the same, and when they see their employees quitting it's surprised Pikachu face and denial.
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I've worked as cook and sous chef for about 13 years now. Most I ever made was 55k a year and at that time I was working ~75 hours a week. If we extrapolate to 100 hours... Carry the one.... Yup! Still a far cry from the paycheck of a CEO.
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cook and sous chef
Mad respect from me. I can't think of a more difficult job, you have to keep up, you have to juggle orders were some things are easy and some things are hard, you have to deal with the temperature and the standing and the moving. This is a tough, tough job!
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It's also to make sure the commercial real estate market doesn't crash
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Imagine if all that commercial real estate was converted to affordable residential rentals!
Lol, I know, fuck me right?
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LOLLL.... "affordable"
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no it isn't. the only people concerned about commercial real estate collapse is commercial real estate owners. CEOs care about their interests and power only.
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Do the bare minimum, send out as many resumes as it takes. Those of us with talent (enough) will be hired by forward thinking companies and these dinosaurs will be left with 2nd rate employees and the few who actually need the office structure (which are probably the same kids who did their homework Sunday night instead of on the bus home Friday afternoon).
I watched this unfold in real-time at the small firm I was at as a Systems Engineer (IT). The ONLY reason they forced me back in the office so I could be an Executive Ass Wiper. Literally zero reason for me to be in the same country, let alone the office other than that. Ancient rich white men who can't even be bothered to dial their own (noncellular) phones. They were fine over 2 years of Covid, what changed?
I also never got a full 24 Hours that I didn't have to think about the firm in 3 years unless it was my yearly vacation. I kept saying things about it for 2 full years and got platitudes and word salad. I had maybe 3 months total of pay cheques that were under 50+ hours in 4 years.
It left such a bad taste in my my mouth that after six months forced back I not only left the firm, I quit my career. I'll eat dirt before I willing allow anymore exploitation of my skills and person. I'll strike out on my own and see what's what.
Fck these ancient old men and their out of date thinking. Fck their naked aggressive greed and self-importance. Show zero allegiance. Be a mercenary about your pay and package. Your employer isn't your friend. When you die your position will be advertised before your obituary has posted.
Say it with me: I wasn't born to work. I wasn't born to produce. I certainly wasn't born to keep old rich people rich. I was born to figure out my own purpose, not have it dictated to me.
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Say it with me: I wasn't born to work. I wasn't born to produce. I certainly wasn't born to keep old rich people rich. I was born to figure out my own purpose, not have it dictated to me.
I don't live to work, I work to live. But it's disingenuous to say anyone with talent can easily find another job. Most workers don't have nearly as much power as tech workers.
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Yep. There's a lot of people out there who deserve more protections against employers because they can't just get another job so easy, let alone be able to work from home.
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and the few who actually need the office structure (which are probably the same kids who did their homework Sunday night instead of on the bus home Friday afternoon).
Speaking as someone who did their homework on the bus to school Monday morning, in study hall, and on Sunday night if there was a lot, I'm way more productive working from home because I can chunk out my work.
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Sure, but second rate employees deserve workers rights too. We should at least be careful to not build our rights on their backs.
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This is the best summary I could come up with:
"Because the labor market is looser and there's more talent to be hired, I think the employers think they'll be able to get their way," Dr Grace Lordan, associate professor in behavioral science at the London School of Economics told Insider.
A certain kind of CEO — noticeably skewing male and older, she said — is drawing from this "command and control" playbook as a way to rebuild an employee base that fits their idea of being productive and diligent.
"This belief of a certain cohort of people, and they are represented across all sectors, that presentee-ism is productivity, for them it's perfectly rational that if somebody doesn't want to come into the office then that basically means they're not somebody who wants to add value to the firm," Lordan added.
Elon Musk is consistently adamant about workers at his companies from X to Tesla being present in office, going as far as calling remote work "morally wrong."
A number of firms that benefited from a pandemic bump in business, particularly in tech, went on a hiring spree — triggering the "Great Resignation" as workers quit for ever-higher salaries and perks.
That attitude means certain types of employees will lose out — and return-to-office mandates will likely hurt diversity too if they are strictly enforced.
The original article contains 512 words, the summary contains 215 words. Saved 58%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!
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For a lot of positions. Remote work is not just the past and the present. It is also the future.
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Yep. Once the old boomer CEOs die off, I have a feeling remote work will be more readily available.
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It was never about productivity. It was always about control.
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And by "look like" we mean "totally are"
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Additionally, people have been saying this since day 1. How is this news?
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Oh my god, so much this! The only apparent reason I see for many of the “return to office” cases I know about is for middle managers to be able to hold court and lord over their subordinates. As for the actual work that needs to be done, I see little advantage (in fact, constant interruptions for management and colleagues make it quite worse).
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These dingles are gonna flex like this just before another Covid surge, I guess?
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Sure would be a shame if a lot of those office buildings burned down for no reason...
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That would fix everything for the owners because then they can claim insurance and drop the bad assets at the same time
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Is FTFY
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This is terrible reporting, emotional, practically yellow. Two academics are quoted. The article and headline tell you how you should feel about this. This should have never gotten past the editor's desk.
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A new study by human resources and payroll services platform Gusto Inc. shows smaller companies that have embraced remote work cite higher performance, better employee retention and strong corporate culture built on a foundation of flexibility. As small companies compete with deep-pocketed giants for talent, those gains could provide an edge.
“SMBs are increasingly looking to extend the flexibility that their workforce enjoys,” said Gusto Economist Liz Wilke. “Not only to attract them, but to keep them less stressed, more able to manage their lives, and to build a culture and a team that works for them.”
Companies that started in the past three years are 31% remote and 46% hybrid for their workforces, far higher percentages than more-established companies. Only 22% of younger companies are fully in the office, according to Gusto. Overall, companies that were 100% on-site before the pandemic are split between hybrid work and being fully in the office, with 8% fully remote.
from: https://www.bizjournals.com/bizjournals/news/2023/06/13/remote-work-small-business-success-tips.html (paywalled, unfortunately)
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Nobody is forcing anybody -- freedom is in the freedom to abstain, and all of us can abstain from working for an employer that demands RTO. There are plenty of remote jobs remote roles are possible, and the smaller the company, the better the job because you (as the individual among fewer) are valued. Big companies don't care and don't have to care.
It's probably another fact missing from this article, but while larger companies are doing RTO, smaller companies are not. Larger companies are making a mistake here, most likely. They've got problems and are blaming remote work rather than innovating. Smaller companies are nimble.
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I've seen just as many reports that work from home is productive as those that say it isn't. Maybe these companies just might be looking to be efficient? Why is it always a Bond villain plot?
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If we don't know we need more data.
And if efficiency is the same, why not give the employees the freedom to wfh?
This isn't about efficiency, but about control.
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It's not the same. That's the point.
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It's situational.. the on that the papers all quoted that claimed workimg from home was less productive was based on about 200 data entry clerks in India. It doesn't really apply outside that business and the sample was so small you couldn't draw a conclusion anyway.
Meanwhile plenty of cases of productivity increasing (including ours) and they're situational too.
I think it'll come down to... Good companies can get the best out of workers wherever they are. If managers have issues with productivity they need to look in the mirror.
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