Survey says half of developers consider VR market on decline or stagnation

Bingo. I spent a few hours playing some zombie killer game/demo with the HTC Vive back in like 2017, and while it was actually a lot of fun, it was super disorienting and I definitely knocked some stuff off my shelves by trying to stand in the middle of the room by myself. Someone also walked in without me hearing, and they got a hearty elbow to the face when I swung around to shoot a zombie behind me.

And ugh the sweat is real. After a few minutes the headset fogged up and started slipping off my face, and since that particular headset had porous foam all over it, the sweat soaked in and became gross immediately. That was the last time I used VR.

This definitely, vr is a lot of fun, especially with friends (in the game or sharing a headset while we all sit in the same room). But it isn't worth setting it all up (especially if it is pcvr) when I could just play one of the 100s of pancake games I have collected over the years.

True, but there are 2 sides to this: the majority won’t buy VR, unless there are enough games to play.

Studios should be actually investing and taking a risk, maybe it works out and becomes a big market, maybe not. If they keep going the current path, VR will forever remain an expensive niche gimmick. Which they seem to okay with.

That's not why. There's a very high chance Valve is actively working on new standalone VR since some years, there are regular leaks confirming some progress.

I hate to say this, but I played through Half-Life: Alyx and my response was to the effect of “…That’s it?”

It performed badly, gameplay was largely based around very uncreative shooting (take out gun, shoot combine 10 times around corner, eject magazine, reach back, put magazine into gun, pull slide, shoot around corner 4 more times, repeat) and there were only 3 guns. Even the gravity gloves weren’t used in combat.

I was even more wowed by the few VR combat games that made some innovations or had features in the level to outsmart enemies.

Stand alone headsets can play PCVR games too, especially steam games, that is the most accessible market for PCVR on standalone. Most do it wirelessly, which likely isn't as bad as you are thinking, but some also still do it with wired and some even with uncompressed video over wire. But honestly, as the resolution and bitrate keep going up, the difference between raw and compressed gets harder and harder to spot. At this point, you can only really tell in side by side comparisons of still frames which feed is compressed.

The main remaining problem of compressed streams is the total latency added, most importantly the decompressing time, since it's done on the headsets mobile hardware. And the networking time. Though a dedicated network device, either a router or a bespoke VR streaming tool can get that down to 5ms or less now. My streams total latency to my wireless headset is about 30ms now. I wouldn't be able to professionally compete in a frame counting fighter game... but that is about the only type of game where that level of latency is too much. Heck, people of my generation grew up through a point in time where TV screen latency was over 100ms... And while I will admit that there is still a benefit to sub 14ms latency, it's not as big of a difference as it used to be. And that is only when I stream PCVR stuff, it's still under that for stand alone content. Which also is not as bad as you likely think it is.

I have a total of about 250 VR games currently, and I only buy about 10% of the ones I want to buy. But I have also been in VR for 10 years now. About 150 of my games are standalone and about 100 PCVR. With about 30 of them being titles that gave both versions for the price of one. There is no shortage of games, I could not possibly play even all of just the good ones.

A VR headset is basically a console now, except one you can stream your PC to if you want. Even just for flat games too, I have a Virtual 4k 120hz monitor in my VR headset because in real life my 4k screen is an older TV that can only do 60 hz pc input or a very janky 120hz for 1080p. The nice thing about streaming to a VR headset instead of some hand held device, other than 4k 120fps, is that I don't have to look at my hands or hold my hands up to my eyes to play. My neck feels so much better than it did when Phone, Switch, and Steamdeck were the best way to game away from a computer.

My headset is comfortable, I can, and unfortunately often do, wear it for 16 hours a day. I have a single third party mod for it that was less than 100 dollars to convert it from a 2 hour headset, to an infinity headset. There are multiple options, but I went with BoBoVR, dumb name, but quality product.

But my headset has basically replaced my computer monitor, I haven't used my computer in person in like 2 years now. When I want to play a game on my computer, I just stay in my recliner, put my headset on and open Virtual Desktop, the same software I use to stream PCVR when I'm in the mood to be in the game instead.

There is basically no downside anymore, they aren't even expensive. While a Quest 3 is notably better, the lower end 3s is a totally viable headset at 300USD, notably cheaper than most consoles. Just do yourself a favor, if a Quest 3 seems too expensive, do not try it on. Stay with 3s and don't see how much greener the grass is for a little bit more, it's very easy to talk your way up to a real Quest 3.

Also, Steam deck has sold about 5 million units extrapolating from last known good data, Quest 2 sold over 20 million, Quest 3 is seemingly up to 10-15 million so far judging from old sales data for pacing and some recently reported hardware ratios from game devs, and still has about 4-5 more years left of active sales.

So if the Steam deck is a "huge market", then I don't know what you would call the stand alone VR market now. Considering that is just one brand of standalone headset. It's the market leader, sure, but there are other brands that do at least as well as the steam deck. Distant second as that may make them, seems like it's still relevant to include given the context.

I have an Index also, one thing I find frustrating is that because the Quest has such a dominant marketshare and packages games differently, some smaller VR games and experiences I see seem to be only available as an apk file for Quest sideloading and there is no straightforward way for me to play them.

The main reason I don't use it more though is I never got past the physical discomfort, I still feel nausea playing most games for more than a few minutes, and headaches from the pressure on my scalp/face if going longer than that, ie. trying to watch a movie with the headset. So that basically means I'm not going to just spend a lot of time passively chilling out in VR, it has to be some specific thing I want to do that feels worth it to push through the discomfort involved and can be gotten through relatively quickly. Mostly that ends up being just Beat Saber.

Also a lot of people are lazy. VR requires you to move more than playing flat games. Also it requires a decent PC which is an added cost. As you said - when it works (Payday 2, Alyx) there is nothing better. When it doesn't, you can end up with physical symptoms.

You don't need anything like that much for a Quest 2/3. Quest 2 is obviously a bit outdated, but I still have fun with mine.

Yep. The Corporate demand for siloed ecosystems is self-defeating. There are other examples of the same paradigm with VHS v Beta, DVD Audio vs SACD, Dvd vs LaserDisc etc.

Frankly, I don't really care if the tech dies- the companies that "support" it are too flimsy to be counted on as going-concerns, they're just fighting their own downward spirals.

I’m not going to lie: I would own a Quest 3 already if it didn’t have Meta all over it.

I loved my original oculus. I thought it was very well built. I loved it right up until having a Facebook account became mandatory... now I love my value index.

It’s killer app to me is sim racing but it requires too much additional investment

PSVR2 died because it's not backwards compatible with PSVR1.

It's mostly the price. If you have 500 or even 1000 to invest to play games, first that puts you squarely in the top 1% worldwide but more importantly a VR headset is the worst choice in terms of breadth of games you can play. So the first choice will always be a PC or a console which leave the VR headset for the people who actually have 2k+ to spend for gaming and actually want one. A tiny tiny minority.

If you add on top of it that you still have a 50/50 chance of getting nausea each time you play and that it's a pain in the ass (or an additional expense) if you wear glasses, and the space requirement. It's not a surprise if the market is stalled.

As for useful implementation, my cousin is an orthopedic surgeon and they use VR headset and 3D x-ray scanner, 3d printers and a whole bunch of sci-fi stuff to prep for operation, but they are not using a meta quest2, we're talking 50k headset and million dollar equipment. None of that does anything to the gaming market.

My though is that the tech need to get a couple of order of magnitude better and be usable as a day to day computer for work. When I can code in one 10 hours a day without fucking up my eyes, vomiting myself, sweating like a pig and getting neck strain it will have the possibility to take over the computer market, until then, it's a gimmick.

They stopped that years ago. I refused to buy one until it worked without Facebook.

It'd legitimately be easier to fit an arcade cabinet in my house than space for proper VR play.

Hardware and content is still the big issue. The good porn games still suck in VR, and there's not a lot of them. The equipment is just too inconvenient.

Your hands are occupied, your positions are restricted, your tethered to the PC, and I don't want to get a thousand dollars of delicate hardware nutted on. It's just not there yet.

just picking gnat shit out of pepper

Thank you for this wonderful phrase that I will be using from now on.

A VR mech game could be so baller. Also a remake of Black and White would work well. But generally yeah it's just not a great medium for most games and while we have a lot of promising hardware we're struggling to find ways to use it intuitively

I think after the bubble breaks it does down a bit well see some groups take their time to build really functional stuff. We don't have good standards on how to interact in VR and it shows. We don't have enough data on how to make people less motion sick. Basically the hardware is there but the software isn't and that'll take more time than we've been giving it, imo

Realistically though I think the fundamental limits on how you can interact in VR means while there may be a strong niche market, I don't expect it to be a mainstream thing. Even if the prices drop a lot and the headsets get smaller there's still a lot working against them

More games and a Matrix-esque visual file manager where you could walk through various libraries of documents, files, videos or pictures in 3D space, or proportional size like WinDirStat would be cool.

The lack of good games has really made VR hard to enjoy. I have five good evergreen titles and not much else.

You probably couldn't pay me to use VR. The whole way of shutting yourself away from the world just to be stuck with a shitty UI that resembles RL interactions instead of the multitude of UI options abstraction can give you feels entirely unappealing.

Flight in VR is truly something else. Not even a simpit can provide that level of immersion. You think jumping into a white dwarf system is spooky in Elite Dangerous? Try doing it with a headset on. When your cockpit is smoking, alarms are blaring, and the panic sets in, you will finally understand.

I enjoyed my Wii well enough, but my PS3 got the most play out of the three.

VR is absolutely incredible though. It’s hella expensive for a nice kit, but my mind is blown every time I strap into my Index.

Unlike 3d tvs it actually has something to offer. I wouldn't call it a gimmick, but it definitely has a price barrier that is hard to swallow.

Thought this too until I was gifted a headset, and found out I was dead wrong.

Btw they genuinely aren't even that expensive anymore. Cheaper than a console, a phone is 3x the cost, and a gaming laptop 6x the cost.

I feel like you haven’t tried it. 3D TVs were fine and kinda cool. VR is still mind-blowing every time I play it.

Medical training in VR isn't a gimmick. Your view of the uses is just too narrow.

its a standalone device that functionally is like buying a phone with a Snapdragon 865(for older quest 2 models). relative to what you're paying for. It's actually not that expensive in the grand scheme of other gaming devices, as its on par/cheaper than basiaclly all other mainstream gaming devices, and on the low end in terms of smartphone pricing.

Does it just need more games maybe? How are flat games that have a VR mode, are those good?

It'd be nice for there to be 'halo software' to raise market share, otherwise I think it's circling the drain, suffering from the same feedback loop as SLI. It's niche, so developers aren't exactly clamoring to port things or make new offerings for it, which leaves consumers with less incentive to buy the hardware, which leaves developers with even less reason to touch it. Would Nintendo be in the console business if not for Zelda, Mario, and Tetris? Hard to tell

holograph - A document written wholly in the handwriting of the person whose signature it bears.

I think you meant hologram. In which case, check it out: https://axiomholographics.com/devices/hologram-room/

VR seems like one of those things that sounds amazing to the person who first has the idea and maybe even looks amazing in tech demo but once you think about it for a few minutes or have to actually use it for anything practical it just doesn't live up to that.