Today I Learned @lemmy.world Flying Squid @lemmy.world 2w ago

TIL when applying for a British passport online, your identity has to be confirmed by someone who is not a relative, knows you for two years, and has to be from a specific (weird) list of professions.

www.passport.service.gov.uk Confirming someone’s identity: Who can confirm someone’s identity – Apply for a passport – GOV.UK

accountant
airline pilot
articled clerk of a limited company
assurance agent of a recognised company
bank or building society official
barrister
chairman or director of a limited company
chiropodist
commissioner for oaths
councillor - local or county
civil servant - permanent
dentist
director, manager or personnel officer of a VAT-registered company
engineer with professional qualifications
financial services intermediary, for example a stockbroker or insurance broker
fire service official
funeral director
insurance agent of a recognised company - full time
journalist
Justice of the Peace
legal secretary - fellow or associate member of the Institute of Legal Secretaries and PAs
licensee of a public house
local government officer
manager or personnel officer of a limited company
member, associate or fellow of a professional body
Member of Parliament
Merchant Navy Officer
minister of a recognised religion including Christian Science
nurse - registered
officer of the armed services
optician
paralegal - certified, qualified or associate member of the Institute of Paralegals
person with honours - OBE or MBE
pharmacist
photographer - professional
police officer
Post Office official
president or secretary of a recognised organisation
Salvation Army Officer
social worker
solicitor
surveyor
teacher or lecturer
trade union officer
travel agent - qualified
valuer or auctioneer - fellow or associate member of the incorporated society
Warrant Officer or Chief Petty Officer

70 comments

Canada is the same thing, online or in person. Though they've removed the profession requirement in the last couple decades (but it was more restrictive back then, it was basically: lawyer, someone with a PhD, or an engineer).
- Yeah, but like... Salvation Army officer?
  
  But they're an officer. Not one of those lowlife enlisted.
What do these professions have in common? Requirement for a government-issued license?
- They are all professions that require a good reputation and are non-trivial to up and abandon. Some require government licenses, others imply a strong societal standing. All have something to lose, if they commit fraud.
  
  Director of a limited company is easy enough to up and abandon as there’s no limit on the type of company.
  
  Just ask all the people who have been on the bad end of a transaction with a shitty two or three director company that went bankrupt and closed down when people started chasing for money. The next day those same people are directors of a new company doing the same thing.
- I don't think you need a government license to be a journalist or a minister. I'm sure you don't to be a Salvation Army officer.
  
  Are we talking about their admirals? Or their ensigns?
  
  becoming an officer in the salvation army requires signing documentation. Likewise ministers need to be ordained.
  
  So maybe expand the definition of regulation to include public institutions which have defined rules or codes of conducts. Leaving out the clanging irony of the multitude of crimes committed through organised religion.
  
  Journalists is a weird one. I think back in the day it would have been that they trade on their public reputation. Less so now when I can start up a blog on college sports and call myself an investigative journalist.
- I guess they all require you to earn the trust of either clients (solicitor etc.) or a community (teacher, councillor, MP (lol), church minister)
- I was wondering the same thing. Maybe they all have regulators that can revoke a license. So you'd be putting your job on the line.
- Nah. For about £20 anyone can be a director of a limited company.
- I was thinking of a law wording it as someone professional and/or respectable and they had to figure out a list so it wouldn't be as arbitrary and up to whoever was judging the application
- Certification, regulation, proof of identity, of public note or public record..
  
  Basically - you are known and can be found.
What's the definition of "Knows you"?

Like, met several times a year, or the biblical "knows you"?
- Known for at least 3 years, and not a relative. It's not very strict. I was a referee for someone who I see a few times a year at most.
  
  Were they a good fuck?
- If the priest who did mine is anything to go by, the second one.
It's almost like national boundaries were designed to control the movements of the poor, but not the rich.

Must just be my imagination, though.
photographer - professional

I have taken photos! If you pay me for one does that make me professional?
- I published a zine in high school. Does that make me a journalist?
  
  Also, I'm not sure that they realize how easily it is to form an LLC in the U.S. and name yourself chairman. And yes, this includes people with a U.S. passport.
  
  It's trivial to start a limited company in the UK too.
Same for Canada in certain cases. Generally considered trustworthy or certified.
Wild that dentist doesn't have any restrictions but doctor does.
- The history is long and ugly, but here's the short version. The Home Office hates the BMA. UK doctors are frequent participants in judicial reviews, tribunal cases and applications for injunctions against the Home Office. Pesky cases like trying to prevent pregnant women being held in isolation at immigration removal centers or forcibly returning previously tortured refugees to the countries that . . . tortured them. The LAST thing the Home Office is going to encourage is more interaction with the BMA or the NHS.
  
  Just think about it . . the Home Office will take the word of your local publican over your GP. In what world is that normal???
- These a bad teeth joke in there somewhere I just know it
I see the next chapter in the FlyingSquid saga has started.
- Let's just hope I get there with a job lined up. I'm working my ass off for it.
  
  Best of luck!
I mean the list is 50% weird and 50% sensible. I think the idea is that there's someone most people will know that are in "trustworthy" professions/positions. Although, professional photographer. Not really sure they would be in a more trustworthy position than any other job.

Going to say, I think most of us here either used to pay their GP whatever fixed fee they had. But they've taken that option away. Apparently the profession complained. I don't get that. I mean they by definition know you the requisite amount of time. They literally need to sign that is the case and take your money. But, there we go.

I do luckily have a few friends that are solicitors/barristers. So I generally just ask one of them, and it's only once every 10 years so..
- GPs were probably getting inundated with requests and asked to get removed from the list.
  
  Yeah, I just thought it's just a quick task and they usually charged for it as a private function. Surprised they had a problem with it. From the list, I think it's the one almost everyone could use.
As a paramedic I feel deeply offended that we are not on that list but nurses are. Travel agents,okay. But nurses? The insult!
- Everybody knows that you have to be unhinged to be a paramedic 😂
  
  I guess it's more likely the list was drawn up before paramedic was a thing, and then no one thought to change it. The low effort option.
sounds like poor people can't leave the country? Wtf that's a human rights violation wrapped in a lot of special red tape
- The vast majority of people have been employed for 2 years by a vat registered company, and can ask one of the directors or managers. This is basically what everyone does.
  
  You just proved my point. Fuck people who aren't employed, right?
Had the same requirement to get Australian citizenship. It wasn't easy since most of the people I knew were mostly temporary residents/non-citizens too, and my occupation isn't on the list so coworkers are out the running.
- Weirdly, the person can be a U.S. citizen.
Me getting my identity verified by Nigel the porno photographer because he's an upstanding gentleman

"Yeah, I'd know that asshole anywhere"
- "What? I'm a professional! How else do you think I recognize people from their anus?"
Fire services and police both present. Paramedics absent. Suspicious.
- It just doesn't make sense to me. It's so random.
  
  I'm disappointed that Librarian isn't on the list. We're super trustworthy! Edit: some librarians might count as civil servants. I'm tbh not sure where that line is.
Have the same thing in Australia. Not passport but I returned after years overseas and I think I was applying for a tax file number (or bank account, or both!)

I was just really lucky my father had an old family friend who wss a teacher to sign the paperwork
- I got my old high school drama teacher to do it. She's a cool person and was happy to. But it was weird to have to ask her to do it. I started out with, "this is a really stupid request, but..."
Similar in Ireland. Had my kids' passport applications co-signed by their school receptionist.
There's not one artistic profession on that list aside from photography.
president or secretary of a recognised organisation

What constitutes a “recognized organization”? That sounds rather open to interpretation…
- Recognization obviously.
- Probably just that they have a business license. It's somebody the gov't can find to verify if needed since the company has to keep employee records.
Anyone happen to know if family by law counts? Or how people raised in another country are supposed to go about this? I was literally looking into this as well

Edit: read it more closely. Looks like I need a new plan B
I wish the USA had an equivalent to OBE.

70 comments