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The policy is you can only work from home when it benefits the company, not you.
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I'm learning that the hard way. Started working for this company 2 hours from home,because I could WFH 3 days a week. Now they want me to come in 4 days a week. So I'm looking for a new job now. Which is a shame, because I do like the job.
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Yep, was the same with my last company! And I was fucking king of malicious compliance. Ok, I still am. lmao
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I always refused to put work apps on my personal phone because they would make you agree to some bullshit where they could remote access your phone or potentially wipe it. So I would refuse and say they needed to provide a company phone for me if it was that important. Most companies are either ok with this or provide a phone, except for one company. This was a software company, and literally everything else about this company was a unicorn of a job. But for some reason they wanted me to have slack on my phone and also wouldn't give me a company phone. So I dug up an old phone, reset it to factory settings, and added slack to that so I could say I did it. Then I put the phone away and they never asked about it again. So I really don't know what the point of that was 🤷
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My current pet peeve is Email servers (MS Office) configured to only allow connections from outlook. I'd be happy to add an account to Aquamail but they won't let me. So no work emails on my phone or personal laptop.
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for some reason they wanted me to have slack
I get similar requirements from school and kindergarten nowadays. They want me to install weird apps for communications. Last school had an online portal on the web and mail. That was a no brainer but these apps?
Hello Waydroid.
Not gonna taint my own phone with this stuff. That includes WhatsApp.
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Same as. Certain family members expect everyone to be on Facebook and also drink all of Zucks Kool-Aid.
I just don’t go to those family events, unless I’m personally invited. If an event only exists of Facebook, it does not exist to me.
I have 2FA apps on my phone for work. I also have the horrendous HR app for applying for Annual Leave. If they insist that I need more work-related apps on my personal phone, I will be getting a second phone and using that exclusively for work. It will be turned off when I walk out the door at the end of the day and kept in my office drawer.
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While I agree with you and understand that perfectly, slack doesn't have that remote management thing, so far I've only seen that Microsoft apps.
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Its a feature of mobile device management software. Intune for microsoft is one but theres also intelligent hub/airwatch, citrix, manageengine, etc.
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As a middle manager in a corporate hellscape, one of my few joys in life is setting logic traps for HR and making them choose between admitting company policy is bullshit or directly instructing me to violate labor laws.
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Doing the Lord’s work there, Sonny!
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I would love an example, but can accept you can’t produce one without compromising yourself.
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The current argument I'm involved in is about an online platform that people can use to give recognition to each other. HR is telling me to give my team negative performance reviews for not using it regularly.
They love to remind me that there's an app that everyone can install on their phone. The thing is, my team aren't allowed to use their phones at work. So, the goal is to get them to tell me in writing that using this online platform is mandatory and that my hourly staff has to do it off the clock or face repercussions which is illegal.
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I'm not allowed to work from home and it seriously pisses me off. Whenever I complain about this to my boss, she always gives me shit like "you're a school bus driver".
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I am in a weird position, as a software developer, I work for a tiny company and they’re against work from home, but they’re absolutely amazing and accommodating in all other areas and I have no complaints.
So I had car issues and was able to work from home 3 days a week, but it still pisses me off that I have to go in those two days. They say it’s so we can communicate and ask for help, but mostly it’s a silent office and we can’t even wear headphones. Often I can go in and if I’m in a mood there is no communication all day long (I am the chatty one and will engage in debates a lot). Yet I’ve had to take a 3 hours public transport route to work (car issues) just to sit there and not talk.
I’m torn because they’re amazing in every other aspect and super understanding about my mental health issues and leaving early and making up time etc. we don’t have targets and are just trusted we will work hard, I struggle as I overthink and put a lot more pressure on myself than my employer does, but I can’t change the way my mind work.
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People will look at one aspect and say that the job sucks. Truth is, there is no perfect job and only you can tell that it balances out. The way you talk about it really feels like a nice place to work, with the exception of the headphones thing, that is weird. And if you like to chat with coworkers a full remote Job may be kinda hell, it is really easy to feel isolated and not connect with people because it takes more effort like going to audio or video calls to hangout or having to chat over text more
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Headphones as a reasonable accommodation for a disability eg ADHD/Autism/etc might be a good option if it applies to you
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Feel ya, no job is perfect. My giant employer is great about WFH for those hired as such during a particular period of time, but they’ve outsourced HR entirely to a third party - a simple inquiry becomes a three day saga, abd if I’m talking in real time to HR, voluntarily, it’s because I’ve a concern of some immediacy.
WFH plus great benefits > downsides, but it’s always a balancing act of priorities for sure.
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I'd grin and bear it to be honest. Perhaps try and look at it like time you won't be spending money on utilities to warm your house and stuff like that. For perspective, though, I prefer going out to work rather than working from home, and my commute takes just over an hour each way four days a week.
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Our boss was freaking out over people sometimes doing some private calls during work hours and at a certain point absolutely forbade it. So yeah, people would just end the call at 17:00 sharp and switch off the work phone. It took one week before that rule was rescinded.
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This reminds me of a work-to-rule or a "White Strike." It turns out that every company, even those that supposedly operate off of "unskilled" labor, utterly rely on employees making a ton of judgment calls and often working outside their job description. When employees start working to the letter of their job description, the whole operation quickly grinds to a halt.
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And that's ridiculous on general because you know who also does regular work hours? Everyone else!
That means if you need a call with your doctor, bank, whatever, it's likely gonna be during the workday
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Man we had someone in the army do this. Army doctrine is either outdated or very accessible to the poor, I don't fuckin know, but you aren't required to have a phone.
So this one weird junior Joe just decided he didn't need a phone. Got rid of it, and as a result never got the information he needed on army shit. I loved him for it, and by the law he was in the right. Can't tell him to get a phone.
Unfortunately I was his team lead, and every time my chain of command decided to put out bullshit last minute information over text I had to tell them to suck it and pvt NoPhone wouldn't be at their surprise formation.
Sometimes for important stuff I would have to drive to the barracks and knock on homies door to let him know there's surprise inspections or piss tests and shit.
The workplace should operate entirely without external communication. It worked since the dawn of man, and it should continue to work until the end of man if we want any semblance of work-life balance.
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If I had to guess, the reason for the lack of a phone requirement is that, if the army required everyone to have phones, the army would need to pay for them, too. I'm sure the army loves spending money on things like that.
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Which you know makes sense. What if aliens invade? We need the team assembled!
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As retired Army, this is freakin' phenomenal. I hope that dude is doing well today.
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pvt NoPhone
Love this bit. Gonna steal it :D
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In all of my IT jobs I would have been fired if I had signed into work accounts on my personal phone. It's a pretty big security risk.
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True, but in small companies it's not uncommon.
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Not exclusive to IT; I had to weigh the benefits of continuing to work as a caregiver for a small company, versus working in retail for a massive chain (which translates to fantastic insurance benefits.)
Sadly not a competition.
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While true, most enterprises have ways to silo and encrypt their data on non company controlled devices.
Android does something like that when you install ms office apps with administrator controlled policies
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Eh, it doesn't need to be, you just need to do the work of putting together granular access controls that can account for your risk profiles.
The risk isn't much different between a company owned telephone and a personal telephone.
They're both susceptible to most of the same attacks, or being left on the bus. -
Most companies seem to have don't ask, don't tell policies in place.
Technically we're not allowed to use Teams on our phones, but most of us do, including management.
I'm also technically not allowed to use Spotify on my laptop, but if they'd enforce that ban, IT would be gone tomorrow.
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In my current job the old manager okayed working on our own devices.
I would use my personal workstation to ssh into and do work on my work mac, did that for a few years. saved me disassembling my desk between uses every day or buying a costly KVM.
They seem to be getting a lot more uptight about security these days (although the "you can work on personal devices" rule hasnt been explicitly rescinded) so i have stopped interaction between my personal devices and work devices.
Having a M2 mac recently makes it easier, i can lie in bed and work pretty much all day on a single charge so my desk remains intact
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I remote into my work laptop too, but I don't have any work data on my personal devices. And, my desktop is more secure than my work laptop.
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Boss calls me (the sole on-site IT person) on a sickday and tells me something important broke and I need to come and fix it (45 minute bus ride one-way). I know exactly what broke and I tell her if she goes into my office and turn my computer on then I can remote in and fix it in literally 5 seconds. She nearly screams at me saying that my contract doesn't allow remote work and I don't remember what exactly was said after this point but it was something along the lines of:
"It won't be fixed for another 5 days then because I'm not coming in today (Thursday, and I don't work Fridays or Mondays)."
"Ok bye"
"bye"
Guess it wasn't important
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You can always spot the ones who care about the power structures more than the purpose by stupid shit like this.
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It was quite generous of you to even suggest solving it on a sickday. Boss should have understood.
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Doing home health was kinda instructive for me in this regard.
The only time you go to the office is to turn stuff in, do inservices/continuing education, or similar. But originally I would answer calls at weird hours because a patient would need coverage, otherwise they wouldn't be calling.
And then the management spent way too much money buying into some Disney corporate policy thing (literally, they paid money to Disney for the program) that changed a ton of rules in bullshit ways that made no sense for home health.
So, the next time they called, I didn't answer. Or the time after that, or the time after that. And, when you're one of three men working for a company that's partially reliant physical strength to be able to do the work needed for some patients, this alarmed my supervisor. She requested a meeting, and I went in. Mandatory meetings were paid though!
At the meeting, it was expressed that answering calls was part of my job. So I asked id I was being paid to sit at home and wait for calls. No, I wasn't "on call". So, you want me on call? No, just to answer when we call you. That's being on call, and we're supposed to get paid for that. No, this is different, we just want you to be available when someone calls out for a difficult patient. Soooo, you want me on call.
This went in circles for a while before I switched gears and directly said that answering calls when not on duty was not in place when I was hired, and that the employee handbook specified that being on call was considered a shift, and would be paid as such, and that maybe I should have been on call any of the dozens of times I did wake my ass up from sleep after workout two or three jobs in the first place, and that I never got paid a dime for doing so, so that was the end of it for me.
The response was that they couldn't stay operating if they paid everyone for being on call instead of us "supporting the company". My response was that maybe they could have if they hadn't shelled out for the Disney crap, or if the previous administrator hadn't been screwing around and embezzling, and that maybe it was time the company supported us.
Not surprisingly, I was one of several employees "let go to streamline services" a few weeks later, right before the company folded entirely.
So, you don't even have to have an office job to get treated like shit! Isn't that a relief? Isn't it?
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The response was that they couldn’t stay operating if they paid everyone for being on call instead of us “supporting the company”.
That's the heart of the matter. They wanted you to support the company, without the company supporting you.
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The people who should me steering the ship often would never accept a position at the helm, and then we are left with people serving up platitudes about why they deserve free labour.
Only thing you left out is when they say, "it doesnt come with additional pay but it will look good on your resume!".
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A previous job of mine wanted people in my team to volunteer for being on call overnight for a week at a time.
No-one did, so they forced us. I emailed all managers involved including HR I said that I would like to opt-out for various reasons like family, mental and physical health, and also that the pay was in no way adequate for what they wanted. Again they pushed, so I replied with I'll do it but would be unavailable most afternoons and evenings with my kids and things they have on. That I also won't be able to answer after going to sleep because I take my mental health very seriously and need quality sleep to function.
So the first night I slept peacefully as I normally do as I have my phone set to go to DND automatically. I got called in because I didn't answer a call that came in last night, I asked when it was, about midnight, and said well that's because I was asleep.
Go to the next 2 mangers up, say the same thing and they say that I need to answer. I explain the email stating that I would be unable to answer calls at many times including when asleep and how no-one replied with that being a problem. One of the managers was like, wait up, you flagged this; yup; can you send me the email chain; yup. Got removed and told I wouldn't need to worry about doing it anymore.
It found a new job shortly after that.
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Sounds like a 3rd world ultra capitalist creepy story. I grew up in center right 3rd world (Brazil) and that would make it a truthful but funny snectode.
Now I'm in center center 1st world (Australia) and we've got passed a law a few months ago to not bother employee for bullshit.
I though why did we fn need a law for that, then your story reminds me.
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Yeah great law, really put the breaks on my old boss. He would email and call at like 10pm at night about shit.
Now I work for myself and can't get away from my boss haba
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...you shouldn't have to respond in home hours regardless. Any time you spend on work during your life outside of contract is them stealing your labour.
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Many IT jobs require an on-call rotation. Even when not on call, an SME can be called in an emergency. Time spent on call-outs typically either pays overtime or gives comp time. The infrastructure has to keep running, that's just how it is.
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pays overtime or comp time
You're very funny, great joke! 😭
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I keep critical applications running at work that thousands depend on. While I was at a union convention, one of my apps broke. I had to login that day and fix it while going over the budget with other members.
This is how the IT world is. I'm the only person capable of maintaining it and I must be available if things go wrong. The show must go on.
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Most IT positions are salary so this makes sense and is reasonable for critical systems. If you're not salary, yikes.
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many people who work from home have flexible work hours (they can decide if to work in the evening or morning) and so they need to be reachable at any time, even it it might be off hour
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Keep telling the DBAs that my company outsourced a big chunk of their tech stack to that its against company policy to work all the way on the other side of the planet, but they refuse to show up to the office.
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Incoming employment terms amendment:
You can work from home but only to answer us when we contact you. You must answer our contact and must report to the location if requested. If you can do something cheaper (for us the company) and faster (for us the company) then that is the only time you may perform a work duty at home.
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It's EU law that if you have to be standby to pick up the phone and go on location at a moment's notice, those are working hours and need to be paid in full. Most companies are pretty careful to not put it anywhere in the contracts or house rules that you have to be on stand-by, but just verbally keep pushing for it. If they keep pushing, push back with asking for the written rules.
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You must answer our contact
"I cannot answer the company contact after hours because for every call I get after hours that isn't a company contact, following an order from work to monitor those on the chance of a company contact itself represents 'working from home' which the company forbids. I cannot violate the previously stated company policy."
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*ammmendment
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I'm on hybrid, but my entire team is all over the world, so I'm just as alone in the office as at home. The only difference is that in the office I'm bound by the train schedule, so I can't take out of hours calls. My coworkers and manager keep petitioning HR to let me work from home full time.
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But management can claim a win by forcing ONE IT person to go to the office.
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How do they keep track of you if you're alone in the office? I'm just curious.
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We have access cards to unlock the office doors; this is tracked. Everyone is required to be in the office for a certain amount of days per month, and a monthly report is always generated. I found when the fewest people are coming (nobody on my floor), and that's when I come in, given that my entire team are digital nomads, so I'd communicate with them via Slack anyway.
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Which is weird cause the savings in not comming in to center is a win for everyone.
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Not the real estate the finance industry relies on for REITs, think of all those poor restaurants opened in downtown wherever. No nobody will eat there now rent payments are being missed and REITs are dipping. Uh oh
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It's true. I doubt the corps care though. Seems like the reason is millions of people live outside the city. Maybe find a way to make then want to stay by I dk making more residential buildings that are affordable.
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The corporate office I work at panicked because they were going to get reclassified as a "remote hub" for tax purposes, which would have reduced everyone's pay. But I'd personally prefer to take the cut instead...
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Oh didn't know that was a thing.
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But how am I supposed to control my workers if they work from home?
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Lol same energy as How am I supposed to make sure my partner doesn't cheat on me if I don't GPS tag him?
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Should be the standard anyway. Reading email and texts from work, or responding to calls, is work. Unless your contact specifies on-call hours, you should ignore your boss outside of working hours. If they really want you to respond they can pay you overtime.
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Places that specify on call time also tell you not to check stuff when you're not at work or supposed to be on call though, because that's expensive for them. And if they tell you to check something they just put you into on call pay.
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Why did you, why would you, ever have work email and Teams on your phone in the first place?
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Personally, I had Slack then teams mobile for work because I didn't mind helping outside normal work hours on one off stuff.
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At my last job I managed a team of developers in India (while residing in the US). It was pretty much necessary for me to be available outside of my company's normal work hours. I always compensated myself for middle-of-the-night activity with time off during the day and nobody ever mentioned having a problem with it. I was eventually rewarded by being laid off with everybody else when my company was acquired by a west coast tech giant.
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To prep my day. As a late shift I want to know what I am walking into rather than be anxiety ridden for my 4 hours of day light. That being said I don't respond I just check to see what is happening
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"No, not like that!"
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If you sort by new, the last time it was posted in !maliciouscompliance@lemmy.world was only 2 posts ago.
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Ol Reliable...
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After four years of work from home, since the beginning of the pandemic, we'll soon have to start going back in once a week. I know, that's a lot better than many people that have been forced into 5 days a week or similar bullshit, but it's definitely one more day a week than I want to go in. DC area, too, so you know traffic is going to be a nightmare, as always.
I'd even be willing to go in quarterly or whatever for special meetings. But weekly? We've proven we can do this.
They're pushing this whole "hybrid" working and "rethink how you work!" and "it's all about teams!" But they didn't require any sort of coordination on coming into the office for teams, or anything along those lines - it's a free for all. So instead of sitting at home on a call, we're going to be sitting in cubicles on phone calls. It doesn't make any sense.
And even if they had decided teams should coordinate in-office days, my area in particular works with so many different teams that we'd still be remote for most of them. Or in the office every day, which would not go over very well.
But I'm sure the Popeye's (fast food chicken place) across the street will welcome us back. The one that has survived over four years without us. No one I know has ever gone there.
We're going to lose a bunch of people as a result. And hiring is a disaster that isn't likely to be resolved any time soon. It's gonna be a fun few years...
Counting down the days until I can retire. Unfortunately, there are too many, I'll have to deal with this. Or find a completely remote job.
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I know, that’s a lot better than many people that have been forced into 5 days a week or similar bullshit
I hope for your sake this isn't just their first test followed by an escalating series of demands :-/
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Ha, actually they played themselves on that front. I don't want to get into all of the details, but basically there's literally not enough space for all of us to be in on the same day. There used to be, but they shrank the footprint to save money.
Honestly I think the plan from our upper management was to allow a lot of full-time remote working, but that got killed by even higher up people. So, now we have this. I actually think our upper management isn't really the bad guy on this one and are just trying to make the best of a bad situation, dealing with idiotic requirements coming from on high.
I also think there are some artificial factors keeping it at one day a week, for now. It might go up to two at some point in the future, but a lot can happen between now and then. And two days might start running into that space limitation again, and they won't easily be able to expand the footprint - nor will they want to spend the money.
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And....? How did the story turn out?
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This is basically how I get new privileges at work...
Now if only I could convince them that I don't have enough hours to do my job, while still being able to do enough of my job without getting fired...
No really they cut my hours and I'm still pissed about it.
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That happened
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I did it.
best thing that ever happened. now I get to wfh and I still refuse to answer calls from my boss after hours.
if it's important have opsgenie call me, that way I can report I responded to 200 calls over the last year because some dumbass tripped over an Ethernet cable and my boss refuses to push the issue with infrastructure.
it's a win win. I get yearly raises, he gets to keep his mouth shut and not "rock the boat".
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, judging from the other comments.
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Big "thathappened" energy
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Like when your mother and I conceived you.
No one believed I was your father.
…because I wasn’t.
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It’s hilarious the reaction you’re getting. I love this story and someone out there has surely done similar but this is a fiction. I think you’re being downvoted because people really really want it to be true.
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Do you have proof that this is fiction? I don’t think so. There’s no proof that it isn’t either, sure, but this sub is mainly just for laughs and the story doesn’t require being true for it to be funny.
Coming into threads and posting stuff like that is like going into malls at Christmas just to tell kids that santa isn’t real. (Or worse, since you don’t even know if you’re right in this case).
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