Today I Learned @lemmy.world Aatube @kbin.melroy.org 2w ago

TIL that India cut the Pythagorean theorem—Edit: its similarity proof—, periodic table, and evolution from mandatory education in June 2023 Edit: before adding it back a week later

www.dw.com India cuts the periodic table and evolution from schoolbooks – DW – 06/02/2023

Crucial science topics will no longer be taught to a large swath of Indian students, according to new government guidance.

In a statement, the council rationalized the reduction by stating they wanted to reduce the content load on students in light of the Covid-19 pandemic. On June 1, India cut a slew of foundational topics from tenth grade textbooks, including the periodic table of elements, Darwin's theory of evolution, the Pythagorean theorem, sources of energy, sustainable management of natural resources and contribution of agriculture to the national economy, among others. These changes effectively block a major swath of Indian students from exposure to evolution through textbooks, because tenth grade is the last year mandatory science classes are offered in Indian schools.

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/evolution-periodic-table-to-stay-part-of-class-9-10-syllabus/articleshow/101058188.cms

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106 comments

And just like that, 1 in every seven kids in the world got royally fucked.
- Right?
  
  Let's see, Pythagorean theorem, is what, a couple thousand years old, and a single statement, right? And it's the foundation of geometry and trig. Hell, I regularly say it in my head (a2+b2=c2) when trying to figure out spatial relationships, for dumb stuff no less (will this table fit on my patio with room to walk around it?).
  
  It's how you ensure anything you're trying to make square is square. In framing (shed, house, deck, whatever) it's used to ensure you setup your string in the proper orientation and don't end up with a parallelogram.
  
  And the Periodic table.... The bloody basis of understanding chemical reactions and physics.
  
  I guess if you're not teaching the Periodic Table, there'd be no hope if understanding evolutionary theory, since it's predicated on chemical behaviour.
  
  Seriously… the Pythagorean Theorem is the single most important piece of practical math that can be easily taught to everyone.
  
  The first uses of the hypotenuse theorem came centuries before Pythagoras, unknown exactly when it came to be. Pythagoras just happens to be credited to be the first to document it.
  
  http://5010.mathed.usu.edu/Fall2021/BDzierzon/history.html
  
  Edit: Noting that the http site doesn't seem to load in Android WebView mode, fuck Google Chrome, it loads in Firefox though.
  
  The Pythagorean theorem is no foundation of anything. It is just one solution to one problem that nobody else had solved before.
  
  Archimedes has built the foundations that you are talking about.
  
  That is taught in lower grades. The article is misleading. What is actually dropped is a specific advanced topic on the Pythagorean theorem.
  
  Just for clarification, so less people use it wrong:
  
  a² + b² = c² (a*a + b*b = c*c) is the Pythagorean Theorem.
  
  a2 + b2 = c2 would be a+a + b+b = c+c.
- Well it says mandatory, hopefully it still stays in most schools. Absolutely fucked tho
PEOPLE FALLING FOR THIS SHIT AGAIN IS INSANE !

They haven't removed the Pythagorean theorem, it seems to be taught in lower grades. This is Pythagorean theorem for the similarity of triangles, which was dropped to remove burden during pandemic.

Periodic tables and evolution are moved to one or two grade higher. NOT DROPPED.

There you go. Now you have the facts. Enjoy the rest of your day 🫡
- What the hell are you talking about!? It says in the article that these three subjects have been moved out of mandatory learning.
  
  Meaning that most Indian students won't understand the basic principles of evolution or the most simple understanding of the composition of elements.
  
  Not considering either of these three to be essential mandatory learning is insane.
  
  The syllabus includes of related topics way before in 6th or 7th grade. Some of them are often repeated (may be even intentionally). They learn about elements and their composition in 7th or 8th grade. After having all that, if student is inclined to it they learn more in 11th and 12th grades. Most of students follow up to 12th in India. If you are so concerned go check the textbooks yourself - https://ncert.nic.in/textbook.php
  
  Although I don’t suppose most people won’t do that because why put the effort to understand things when you can spew dumb opinions around ?
  
  The reason the topics were rationalised to improve remote learning and reduce burden on students during exams in a country where suicide rates among students due to exams and societal pressures is a real concern.
  
  The way people have been reacting to this is as if students coming out of school are dumb fucks with no scientific knowledge. I bet the ones commenting here doesn’t even know half of what those students know.
  
  10th grade is mandatory but 90% of students who studied till 10th WILL study 11th and 12th. In 10th grade they WILL learn pythagoras theorem periodic table and evolution, just not as deep into it as it used to.
- It says in the post that 10th grade is the last mandatory grade, so this means many students will miss out on learning about evolution, no?
  
  Correct. After 10th grade, you can choose a "stream" (course). You can choose between science, commerce, or humanities. What's worse is that each stream has multiple branches, and biology is not included in all the branches. So if you were to choose computer science branch in the science stream, you will not take any biology classes.
  
  So a vast majority of students would never learn about some very important scientific concepts if this was implemented, but I'm not sure if they reversed this decision or not.
- Evolution is dropped from mandatory and is only taught to students who opt to learn biology, after high school.
- These changes effectively block a major swath of Indian students from exposure to evolution through textbooks, because tenth grade is the last year mandatory science classes are offered in Indian schools.
  
  I know nothing of India's education system. Does this mean it's in an optional class now or is this totally wrong?
  
  Its totally correct, 10th is last mandatory grade, after that you can choose which subject you wanna study for 11th and 12th
- that's just your hypotenuse
  
  Kids in india in a few years: the sum of the square of the cathedrals equals the hypothesis
- as said below, that’s the last mandatory grade
  
  This is Pythagorean theorem for the similarity of triangles
  
  could you source that?
  
  See for yourself in old textbook (page 144)
  
  https://archive.org/details/mathematics-textbook-class-10-2006-ncert/page/144/mode/2up
  
  Source: Me and my little cousin.
- PEOPLE FALLING FOR THIS SHIT AGAIN IS INSANE
  
  Me, everyday, reading any news lately.
- That's what the article says and nothing about the title conflicts with it. These are all pretty basic concepts that should be taught early.
- Thank you
- Thanks for fixing the retard outrage clickbait.
- Also 'cuz I'd like to see how they could progress in the curricula without Pythagoras and the periodic table.
- Thanks for that. I hate people who leave out important information and context. They are evil.
  
  Except this comment seems to leave out that mandatory science education stops in India at 10th grade, so the periodic table and evolution will not be taught to Indian students unless they pursue higher grades of education.
  
  Edit: It appears all of this is also moot, since a comment below pointed out that these things have been added back into the curriculum:
  
  https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/evolution-periodic-table-to-stay-part-of-class-9-10-syllabus/articleshow/101058188.cms
What the actual fuck? Those are all taught way before 10th grade here in the US, even in my ass-backwards state.
- I feel like they worded it poorly or misinterpret it from the source. Post-soviet edu has all three at 5th grade (age 10-12), the beginning of the middle school, because only then you can start and learn respective fields for remaining 5-7 years. If you place them in the last year of school it you don't have a room for that at all.
  
  I suppose it should've meant 'in their whole 10-year program', not the tenth grade.
- We learned Pythagorean theorem in 7th grade when I was a kid 30 years ago. I think they learn it even earlier now.
- Yes they are in India too. This article is misleading. It is about a specific advanced concept using the Pythagorean theorem.
- I feel like they worded it poorly or misinterpret it from the source. Post-soviet edu has all three at 5th grade (age 10-12), the beginning of the middle school, because only then you can start and learn respective fields for remaining 5-7 years. If you place them in the last year of school you don't have a room for that at all.
  
  I suppose it should've meant 'in their whole 10-year program', not the tenth grade.
Okay the evolution part, though stupid, is religious fundie par for the course. But middle school geometry? Are they fucking retarded?
- Short answer, yes.
  
  In 2018, Indian minister for higher education Satyapal Singh baffled the scientific community by demanding that the theory of evolution be removed from school curriculum becaue "no one ever saw an ape turning into a human being." Other political leaders from the ruling Bhartiya Janata Party came to his defense on social media.
  
  That statement alone speaks to his fundamental misunderstanding of what evolution is. Stupid people not knowing a subject, understanding their entirely flawed guess is wrong (I agree with them there) yet not realizing WHY they're wrong, then barring it because how ridiculous what they think it is sounds. Dunning something something Kruger something. I'm 100% for teaching kids that gorillas just dont turn into humans and actually teach them what evolution means.
  
  Everyone knows different dog breeds were invented by god in the 18th century
  
  Clearly that man needed to be taught more about evolution when he was in school.
  
  "no one ever saw an ape turning into a human being."
  
  Maybe phylogenetics then? Tells pretty much the same story and is based on measurable data.
  
  "I ain't never seen no animorphs"
- Yes.
  
  Imagine not knowing the fucking Pythagorean Theorem. Imagine not being able to do basic trigonometry, a cornerstone of physics.
  
  A cornerstone of construction
- Yes indeed they are
- Nah they just understand the superiority of beans to triangles
Ok don’t make it mandatory but then what would you be teaching instead? These are all like the basic building blocks of chemistry and geometry. You just aren’t gonna teach kids those subjects then?
- I think there's an argument to be made for letting students specialize a bit earlier than college freshman or sophomore 18-20 years old). I think a basic foundation of subjects is something everyone should have, but an entire year of something like chem or physics or bio? That's about as useless for humanities people as an entire year of reading plays would be for science types.
  
  Maybe a semester on each one is sufficient, and then after 10th grade (16-18 YO) you can choose to focus more on humanities vs STEM. You can still leave something similar to the current curriculum in place for the undecided students. And of course you can still have some crossover with electives.
  
  All of these topics are : How the Universe Works 101
  
  ..and they apply to literally any and every field of study..
  
  General knowledge like this is ducking priceless when it comes to understanding.. so. ducking. much.
  
  That aside, I also think your specialization comment is stupid. Did you happen to graduate from a school in India in the past 16 months?
  
  I think you could make an argument of combining the essentials of physics and chemistry into a single year long course but that would include teaching the conservation of energy, periodic table and so on.
  
  But I disagree that people don’t use apply these subjects in your life. I think it’s pretty necessary to be able to estimate distance or be able to engineer repairs at home without having to call a professional or order brand new goods, or for chemistry, be able to clean your home without accidentally making a bomb.
Seems like you have not TIL’d fully.

Setting aside that it was temporary (though I could agree there is some malice on the committee’s part in this respect), the topics in discussion were already introduced in lower grades and the complex aspects were moved to higher grades.

But the most important part that never ever got discussed since the story broke, is that the change did got implemented because the committee listened to the feedback and dropped the plan merely a week later. [0]

The government and education ministry have some glaring flaws, but this is not one of them. They continue to make questionable decisions that deserve attention and criticism; yet these issues rarely receive the focus that this story has generated.

Please stop with the FUD, even if it is due to your lack of knowledge on the matter.

[0] http://toi.in/WFlcAb44 (apologies for linking this abomination in the name of a news website, but they were the ones to break the news and get the interviews.)

E: missed a word.
- sorry about that
  
  No problem. Thank you for adding the link to the story update.
  
  ~~You could highlight the relevant content of the second link, like you did with the first. Most people are not going to click a second link.~~
  
  E: noticed that the title has been updated.
Goddamn fascists man.
What else to expect from a RW govt who thinks hindu religious scriptures have all the knowledge
Are they still taught that mitochondria is the powerhouse of the cell?
- If they cut there, what else is there to teach?
- All I know is where the pee is stored.
- Yea
- Hey I understood that reference!
India is super conservative. A lot of Trump’s biggest supporters are Indian in the US.
Those darn triangles!
Modi's ahead of Trump on many many things. Mulsims are not yet lynched by mobs in the US
- Modi did it in '02
Thats religion for you.
This is what the incoming Trump administration wants to do to the US.
Things no one asked for and these are the stuff students in India study with the greatest interest. They could remove the mundane boring topics but no.
- @prirai Science needs basic humanities and the reverse too. Unless everything is religion
  
  That's what social sciences are for
Keep 'em ~~dump~~ dumb, easy to control.
- But then they'll never learn to proofread their comments.
  
  lol, thanks, corrected it.

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