After Democrats lost the working class, union leaders say it's time to 'reconstruct the Democratic Party'

I'm all for it. The Democrats have been a joke since they fucked Bernie. They're terrible and don't give a shit about their voters.

To be clear to the naysayers: It's not that we're angry Bernie got fucked, it is what it is. We've just seen the writing on the wall SINCE he got screwed over.

Also we're a little angry.
Oh, they were a joke long before that. In 2006, when we went from having a congress that rubber stamped everything Bush wanted to a congress that said they were displeased with Bush as they rubber stamped everything he wanted.
- I don't know much about the US politics before 2010, that's when I migrated to the US.

I think its time to deconstruct it tbh. Name's tainted and "neither" has been the most popular candidate for the past 3 election cycles now. People are itching for a new party to support that doesn't make them feel like their vote is worthless

This would imply years of (effectively) being out of power. Even if by some miracle you would win the presidential election, you would have no local infrastructure to build on. It would give the GOP effective power in many states for an another decade.

On the other hand, look at how easy it was for Trump to completely hijack the GOP. That’s the model you should aim for.
- On the other hand, look at how easy it was for Trump to completely hijack the GOP. That’s the model you should aim for.
  
  That's what I've been saying for a while now.
Seriously why are we continuing with the same party that supported slavery and has been on doing the bare minimum to help people for the last 50 years.
- It's pretty stupid to base your support of a party on what it used to be, not what it is now.
  
  Using your logic, you support the GOP because they elected Lincoln and ended slavery, right? It's not like there's been 160 years of history that might have changed it since, including things like the Southern Strategy and the "Moral Majority", right?
- Slavery, segregation, the Dixiecrats, the Democratic Party wasn't even the "good" one for most of the time it's been around (and arguably wasn't even even definitely "the" good one until like 40 years ago.

Or, now hear me out, Socialism.

Absolutely. Just don't use that word. The propaganda is so goddamn ingrained in the American psyche we might as well just call it something else and try to bypass that fight.
- Hand companies over to their workers, call it supercapitalism, and Americans will eat that shit up
- The freedom to eat, the freedom to earn a fair day's pay for a fair day's honest work, the freedom to afford a house, the freedom from wall street usury, the freedom patriotically build secure and supportive communities, freedom healthcare, protecting the landscape of the greatest country on earth for all of America's generations to come, etc.
  
  Loads of ways to spin free market socialism, take your pick.
- It's just a branding problem that needs a more modern name for today's modern voter
  
  Democracy+
  
  Democracy McDemocracyFace
  
  Buddy Democracy
  
  Msilaicos
  
  Ocialismsay
- Seriously, don’t use that word haha. We don’t need another “Red Scare”
- On the contrary, we should use the words Socialism and Communism loudly and proudly. The less stigamtized these words are the easier the fight for progress.
Absolutely. I have an introductory Marxist reading list if you want to check it out.

We've had several elections in recent memory where it's been really clear that progressive Democrats win elections compared to centrists (mostly midterm elections but still). Somehow that lesson hasn't stuck, and I wouldn't be surprised if Harris' defeat also doesn't teach this lesson. At this point the old guard really just needs to die.

People want change, GOP is offering it and people are eating it up. They just have no idea how incredibly stupid that version of change is.

They just have no idea how incredibly stupid that version of change is.

Yeah, when they find out that things like vaccines might be up for grabs they might be in for a real ride.

The fact that it is even a POSSIBILITY is sheer insanity. If donvict had excess deaths during Covid [1], letting a dumbfuck loser like brainworms ban them would kill even more. This time it'd be kids as well as the very old, most likely. Needless, excess death.

And that's just the start on this loser's notion of "change" that we might get...

[1] A bit of a joke. The policy failures of donvict killed nearly half a million Americans.
- Seriously. I don't care that much about fluoride in the water being removed for four years, but I'm quite grateful that my youngest is getting the last of his vaccines before January. Hopefully it just ends up a "states rights" thing. Still sucks for herd immunity but at least I'll still be able to keep my family vaccinated.
Monied interests wield their donor privilege to ensure these lessons are never learned nor discussed in media. This influence is so powerful, Harris campaign wasn’t even allowed to lie and pretend to be populist like Trump had been doing, in order to attempt to win the election. The donors must be appeased above all else.

Personally, I think the Democrats are doomed to ratchet further into the grip of conservatism in perpetuity. But if you really want to reform the Dems instead, it has to start with significant campaign finance reform to end the legalized bribery.

Good. A party that is not beholden to its constituents has no business running for office.

Not to be cheeky, but the DNC has a business in running for office, and is beholden to its constituents, it's just that its constituents are the wealthy Capitalists that donate to the DNC and essentially buy policy, not the working class.

Reconstruct?

Raize it with impunity and forge something actually good

The Party for Socialism and Liberation is attempting to do just that.
- I applied a while back to no response. Although the nearest chapter is 2 hours away to be fair. They do great work though from what I hear.
- Those are powerful words historically misused in America. Isn't that a risky name to go with?

the party is hopelesslty corrupted and wont even acknowledge why they lost. Its time to dump the dems and build up a progressive party.

That would be after FPTP voting is replaced with RCV or STAR in all 50 states. Trying a third party before those steps will hand the federal government to the GOP for the remainder of my life.
- I don't think RCV or STAR is either enough to disrupt the status quo with a third party nor feasible enough to get in place.
- That would be after FPTP voting is replaced with RCV or STAR in all 50 states.
  
  If we ever get that, there will be a new "that would be after" to replace it. If Democrats want to stop Republicans and are so worried about splitting the vote, maybe Democrats should abstain from running.
  
  They're clearly not up to the task and would rather appease fascists here and abroad.
Absolutely this.

How many times are we gonna be Charlie Brown trying to kick the football before Lucy pulls the ball away?

This party isn't here for us. They do not represent our best interests. They simply care about the ruling class/ultra wealthy.

They have purposely not followed through on their campaign promises so many times. Time to dump them.

DNC isn't getting my vote anymore. Time for a new party.
- That's all well and good, if you want to lose elections for the foreseeable future.
  
  Because it takes a long, long time to build up a new party and have it actually win federal elections.
  
  By then we won't have elections anymore.
The Party for Socialism and Liberation exists. If you want something less Socialist, more Social Democrat, the Greens already exist.
Https://youtu.be/s7tWHJfhiyo

This video shows why that may well likely have to be done within the democratic party itself. The information in that video is of central importance to a plan like to get progressivism on its feet.
I love how splitting the vote cost them a few seats, and your plan is to split the vote.
- That’s not necessarily the way to “build a progressive party”.
  
  On the right-wing side think of how MAGA has overshadowed “Republican”, eating it from the inside.

No shit?!

The writing was on the wall when they ignored voters moving towards the Democratic Socialist. The money was more important.

Populism is relatively easy, even when that populist is a fascist.

How do you construct a worker's party in a country where corporate bribery has been made legal and there is a class of billionaires ready and eager to squash any legitimate improvement to worker's living conditions with their nearly unlimited power/capital? They literally own the means of state and media propaganda, and the means of state violence to protect our beloved economy from the society that exists in subservient subsistence to it.

I vote blue out of harm reduction, but there's no escape in the US without necessary complete governmental and economic collapse. It is too well corrupted into protecting capital over people. I think in the desire for perpetual stability for the sake of commerce/profit, something vital was simply discarded in the modern nation state model:

The renewal that can only come from the collapse of the past.

Are these the same union leaders who backed Trump, because while they're right about the need for reconstruction, I'd like to exclude any fascists from the effort.

Just assume they are because they want Democrats to change in favor of workers.
- I'm always skeptical of any Trump voter who is "pro-worker". I assume they exclusively support workers who are straight, white, cisgender, and xtian...

While I wish them luck, the DNC is structured in a manner that retains power for those with the best ability to secure donations, and these donations come overwhelmingly from wealthy Capitalists. Moving the DNC to a more progressive platform has been the project of Bernie and the Squad for decades, and it seems to have little impact on the broader party line. The DNC isn't really organized in a democratic manner, it operates more like a business.

Workers should instead focus on rapidly expanding their own organizations, which does make a meaningful impact on policy adopted. If you have something to bring to the bargaining table, the DNC is more likely to play ball, but you have to make them do it.

Precisely! The DNC is a fundraising organization, full stop. Been that way since the 80s.
- Since well before then, if you ask me, haha.
Better to make workers parties at local and state levels and try to get a foothold in the system. Force the Democrats to move left or get outta the way.
- The Greens have been trying to do that for decades, the system itself is hostile to outsider movements, and as such organizing outside the electoral system has more room to grow and more levers to push for change.

I wonder if it's just a bit of an overreaction to draw conclusions about the Democratic Party when the difference between Kamala and donvict is < 2%, the Democrats ran a VP after Biden dropped out very late in the election cycle without any primary, incumbents the world over are getting voted out, the candidate was a woman in a nation full of misogyny, AND people have this perception about inflation (that is mostly wrong).

Anyone going to factor that in at all?

Democrats also put themselves in a position where the only choice was a vp candidate who was the least popular candidate 4 years ago and only became VP because Biden promised a woman of color.
The fact that the difference between Kamala and convict was so small is enough grounds by itself imo
Say it casually how Biden dropped out very late in the election cycle. He just decided to drop out. Not like the party forced him to drop out or anything. Got some wolves in the party it seems.

Dems didn't "lose" the working class. Misinformation overshadowed the message.

There's a lot the Dems can do for unions and working-class normal folks. But Kamala could have cured cancer with a touch and they wouldn't have believed it because everything else they consume downplays the improving economy, security and stability under Biden so it was ultimately useless.

Buckets of roubles on Facebook and X won this election.

The Dems began bleeding the working class after Carter.

The problem is that - outside of Obama in 2008 (who campaigned as left of Clinton), and Sanders in 2016 and 2020 - there have been almost ZERO efforts to court the increasingly jaded and apathetic working class voters who have to work harder and harder every cycle only to be disappointed by the candidate they believed in not following through with decreasingly attractive policy proposals.

Again, she wasn’t TERRIBLE, and no matter how disconnected she was, she would have been > than 🍊… but her team had her trotting out LIZ CHENEY over allowing a Palestinian to speak on stage at the DNC.

This idea that there was NOTHING she could have done to win over the small percentage of apathetic voters to push her over the edge is simply not true.

The enthusiasm from the Democratic base disappeared shortly after the campaign backed off the sort of initial good decisions they started off with (like choosing Walz and letting him call Rs weird).

…And then the overpaid completely disconnected party consultants just kept pushing her to move all the way to the right as much as she possibly could under the delusion that THIS time (like Clinton tried) we could get the R cultists to come out and vote for her… I mean they had a literal billionaire Mark Cuban excited for their candidacy.
The DNC has completely abandoned the working class. It's not misinformation. They simply do not care about us.
- The DNC has completely abandoned the working class.
  
  Maybe you should try looking up Democrat's voting history and their accomplishments for the working class before you make statements like this.
  
  Democrats are pro union. Biden was the first president in U.S. history to stand on a picket line with striking workers.
  
  And stupid Americans just decided to vote in the born rich billionaire that has openly stated he is anti-union and anti-worker rights. Democrats aren't the problem. Stupid Americans are.
- That is baloney.
Yup.

Everyone's crying about the Democrat party, but they're ORDERS OF MAGNITUDE better than the Republican party. Seriously, people need to stop whining and compare both party's voting history and accomplishments. It's not even a contest. Democrats get more done.

The bottom line is the majority of Americans aren't intelligent enough to navigate this new age of weaponized misinformation. That isn't Democrat's fault. All they can really do is try to weaponize misinformation to combat Republican's misinformation. And that's morally wrong. Probably the only way though.

Stupid populace. Dark future.
- Everyone’s crying about the Democrat party
  
  Also, please, for the love of $DEITY, don't call them this. There is no such thing as the Democrat party. This is an epithet from the right.

I wouldn't mind it honestly.

Fuck the Democrats.

After that piss poor performance and immediate "we're going to just do it again" what do they think people are going to bother getting out for?

Run Harris and the same shit again and get fewer votes than last time dipshits I don't care.

Edit also to clarify I mean the DNC/ party leaders not voters. But fuck me too lol

We need a new party and not the Green Party.
- The Party for Socialism and Liberation exists.

How would that even work? They are doing exactly what their ~~owners~~ donors want.

Are they saying that rich people should want unions or that there needs to be other ways to fund politics?

You can reconstruct the Democrat party all you want. It won't make stupid Americans smart. They'll still fall for whoever is best at peddling misinformation, fear, and hate.

The internet and media in general has been weaponized. So unless we're talking about the Democrat party learning how to go low and spread extreme misinformation and paranoia in order to win an election, then we're just wasting our time talking.

So unless we’re talking about the Democrat party learning how to go low and spread extreme misinformation and paranoia in order to win an election

And even if they did decide to do this? How are they going to counter the massive disinformation networks the qons the qon-adjacent run? I mean, WashPo, NYT, CNN, MSNBC - all run by the corporate-friendly that will kneecap Democrats to get goodies handed out to them. Then there is Facebook, Xitter, Youtube - all skewed to the qons. And that's not even getting into local news being completely fucked (Sinclair), outlets like Faux and OAN, along with hate radio, and then the broverse on podcasts, YT channels...

The Democratic Party and/or the progressives have nothing even anywhere close to the coordinated and well-funded campaign the qons have...
- Totally agree.
  
  The bottom line is Democrats aren't going to win a misinformation campaign against Republicans because of the reasons you brought up and because they simply aren't as amoral as Republicans are.
  
  It really is up to Americans to be mature, informed, responsible voters who aren't susceptible to misinformation. And that simply isn't going to happen. Especially not now that we've given total control to a party that ran on deconstructing the public education system.
  
  Realistically, from my personal, pessimistic point of view....we're completely and utterly fucked and will probably see a steady decline in this country for the remainder of our lives.

Start by investigating musks money for votes scheme

Or reconstruct the whole damn government. Entire thing is fucked

Marxists have continued to be correct, revolution is a necessity to bring about the interests of the working class. I have an introductory Marxist reading list if you want to check it out.

Do you think roaming bands of "Progressives", egged on by Bernie Sanders, AOC, and The Squad, marching on main streets in ever major city in the country (and the world), and taking over university commons from coast to coast, threatening, badgering, attacking, and running off Jewish students, in defense of Islamic Jihadi terrorists seeing to kill half the Jewish population in the world in Israel, while screaming "From The River To The Sea" scared the bejeesus out of just Middle America, or all of it?

Union or not, Working Class or not, having the "Leftist" mask slip so publicly, calling for what amounts to the end of one of the United States closest allies, chanting antisemitic slogans, in service of an Arab and Persian Islamic holy war, against the Jews, wasn't the winner on national Television sets, all day and night, every day and night, from spring to summer, during an election year.

I mean, who knew, right?

Judaism is not Zionism.
Protesters: "Stop genocide, give us equitable pay, give women rights"

This guy: "Those people are insane depraved fascists"

Lol grow up you fragile vase of a person.
- Hey hey. This guy would absolutely crush most potatoes in a head-to-head contest.
Needs more "Scare Quotes". Absolutely baby brained.
chanting antisemitic slogans, in service of an Arab and Persian Islamic holy war, against the Jews

Absolutely ridiculous. These people oppose Israel's daily massacre of civilians. That is all.
This guy is saying the only part of centrism out loud.
Lmao