ugh i wish

I've seen some shit claiming pasteurization is harmful and I just have to ask if the people who believe that know what pasteurization even is, because how the hell does boiling it make it harmful? Shit... If boiling milk makes it toxic, you better stay away from cheese. And a lot of baked goods. Creamy soups. Pasta dishes. Etc.

This is the whole “gluten is poison” (for people not actually intolerant to gluten) all over again. Those people also had no idea that it was just wheat protein.
Not even fully boiling. To quote Wikipedia, because I'm lazy:

The liquid moves in a controlled, continuous flow while subjected to temperatures of 71.5 °C (160 °F) to 74 °C (165 °F), for about 15 to 30 seconds, followed by rapid cooling to between 4 °C (39.2 °F) and 5.5 °C (42 °F).

Literally 30 seconds of "pretty hot". And people are risking serious illness, even death, over some mythical beliefs about how nutrition works.

There is a way. Just mix it with equal parts hard liquor.

I heard bleach works good too.
So you get a liquid that'd roughly 20% alcohol and mostly milk?

Yeah that's not gonna do it.
- Try this:

Food safety is communism!

Maybe ingest it and then use UV light or inject bleach. I hear Ivermectin helps against everything.

For the other non scientists here is a good article explaining what "raw milk" is. https://www.uclahealth.org/news/article/dangers-raw-milk-arise-bacteria

TLDR: they boil milk to nuke bacteria, "raw milk" is what they call milk that hasn't had that happen and is dangerous, especially considering recent events.

You know it's great to question why we do the things the way we do them, but question them and answer them logically
- The problem is when they ignore the answer to keep asking the question waiting to hear what they want to hear.

ThE FlU Is JuSt A BaD CoLd! If BiRdS CaN TaKe It WhAtS yOuR PrObLeM sNoWfLaKeS?

Damn.
I didn't have "Raw Milk encouraged by the US govt. causes second pandemic in 5 years" on my bingo card for 2025.

I'm not ready for Moovid...

Stop drinking milk not intended for you, problem solved. Go Vegan !

nature doesn't have intent
I greatly enjoy eating vegans. Very lean and easy to catch.
Nah
What about milk intended for me? I mean, my mom may have trouble producing at her age, but...
- Good news! As long as its given consentually then human milk is vegan!
  
  Gross edit: some body builders buy it to bulk up!
- Fellow lemming is so single they can't get milk from their partner. UwU
Fr. It tastes the same, barely taxing for the environment compared to cow milk (depending on the type of milk), plus you don't torture animals. Sounds like a win-win-win situation to me

Edit: Gimme your downvotes guys. I thrive on them 💅🏻
- The main thing for me is most people are lactose intolerant to some degree. It can be worth trying alternative milks just to see if you feel better with it.
- milking cows isn't torture, but I'm pretty sure humans have a bigger carbon footprint than cattle
- It absolutely does not taste the same. Which works for me because I don't like the taste of cow milk.

Is this why Mister Brain Worms wants to sell raw milk? So bird flu spreads since worms hate birds

Louis Pasteur is rolling in his grave...

He is boiling in his grave. Probably milk.
- Only for a few seconds. And he's not even boiling. After that he's fine.
~~rolling~~ curdling

Surely this is satire. One of you guys made this as a joke, right? Right?!?

Crazy how if it was any democrat saying drink raw milk s/he would likely be accused of a conspiracy in which he is trying to spread bird flu so they can have another pandemic and vaccine manufacturers make money out of it. But when a republican says it, s/he is probably celebrated for using the wisdom of our grand grand parents.

I mean, viruses are kind of Trumps thing. Maybe H5N1 kills another million or so to mark his second term.
- H5N1 is way, way more lethal than Covid19.
  
  If it were to mutate to spread between humans without decreasing in lethality it would probably be the deadliest event in human history by a significant margin.
- H5N1 would kill a lot more than a million if it goes H2H.
it would be celebrated as "freedom"

I'm told that if you mix in some bleach, it'll "do a tremendous number" on the pathogens.

https://xkcd.com/1217/
- always a relevant xkcd no matter the topic

Am i seeing this right, that you can buy raw milk in grocery stores? What the fuck?

Raw milk gets bad way to fast in order to sell it in a grocery store.

When kept below about 3C raw milk can last 7-10 days. The problem mainly is in the handling - the longer it's shipped and more it's handled the higher the likelihood it ends up above safe temperatures, reducing that time significantly. And we've all seen how grocery stores handle their perishables... LOL.
- Filthy farming practices don't help.
Imagine deliberately paying a premium for food that can make you seriously ill.
- Imagine deliberately paying a premium for food that can make you seriously ill.
  
  This applies to maybe 80% of what's in a grocery store.
Doesn't it last 5-7 days? In Europe it is long enough.
- People like my boomer mother will buy a gallon of milk and expect it to be good for 2+weeks.
  
  She is part of the reason I do a small shopping every couple days and only buy what I need for the foreseeable future. An entire generation of Americans that are used to everything being so pumped with preservatives that we can eat a Twinkie that rolled under the couch last presidential election.
  
  Yet, we have to scrub eggs of their natural coating at the farm, requiring them to be refrigerated.
  
  Food regulation in the US hasn't moved very far from the 60s.
- All i can say is, that at "normal" refrigirator temperatures milk will be good for 3-4 days. Cant say anything for temperatures below that
Is it like a new thing? I never heard anyone making a fuss about raw milk other than like the Amish for the quarter of a century I've been around.

It seems to be based around the people who just look for problems to have, like okay when are people gonna start drinking bottled puddle water because "its got natural minerals and bacteria" or some nonsense.
- Raw water was a thing. Not sure if it's still a trend but it definately happened.
Why are people surprised by this? Do you guys not have refrigerators in your grocery stores?
- Okay, whether or not raw milk is generally safe, why buy it when there's an alternative that removes the pathogens?
- Raw milk gets bad after about 3-4 days, even with constant cooling. This period is way to short to sell it at grocerie stores in any big scale.
- You see, in America, the milk cattle live in terrible conditions. Mastitis is common. In the US, you really have to pasteurize the milk to kill all the bacteria and viruses that end up in the milk because of the conditions they live in.
- We do, but we also have pasteurization.

Louis Pasteur is rolling in his grave, watching them raw milk drinkers.

You say that, but far as I know, Pasteur died and the raw milkies are still alive!!1!
- Take that, past! We totally futured your ass!

America, home of the brave and land of fucking around and finding out.

Wonder if they tried heating the milk up to 63 degrees C for 30 mins before consumption?

Maybe that would help.

Nah just add a little ivermectin and you're good!
- Just use bleach! It kills 99.9 percent of germs.
Why would you say crazy, nonsense things like that?
- Sorry, I am out of line.
  
  But I do think it could catch on.

Slow pastuerization kills the same amount of microbes as flash... without killing all the flavor of the milk.

But it takes longer, so it's not good for business
- Killing your customers similarly tends to have detrimental effects on businesses.

Fun fact:

The dairy was fined in 2023 for a Salmonella outbreak and is very militantly anti-government.

The why seems pretty clear.

I'm cool with idiots who don't know any better getting what's coming to them... but I'm not really cool with them sneezing on the same door handles I turn.

Except the same people end up serving it to their kids
- Weird. I thought they were anti-abortion.

And Trump isn't even President yet. But I'm sure this is his fault, or Kennedy's.

It's not that they caused it, it's that they're putting this forward as a healthier and better alternative to pasteurized milk, which leads to the connection with the news.
- Well Fresno, CA is Republican, so you're probably right, some kind of evil R plot to kill people.
It's not about "blaming" anything on anybody. Raw milk is one of the things RFK specifically promises to promote.
- It looks like it's State laws that govern whether raw milk sales is legal or not. In Colorado, Arkansas, Alabama, DC, Delaware, and many others it's completely illegal.
  
  What does the federal government have to do with it? It's already illegal to transport it across state lines according to federal law.
  
  https://www.britannica.com/procon/milk-debate

I bet the solution is so fast, it’s past your eyes before you know it.

Edit: for anybody who is hearing impaired.

Past-yer-eyes milk. Nice.
Sounds like something a guy named Louie would think of.
- Louie CK? Funny guy, weird shaped penis.
- idk, seems like an idea that should be sent out to pasture.
Hmm, a sign language pun. Interesting!

Some relatively unknown French microbiologist is rolling in his grave right now.

"LOUIS PASTEUR WAS A FASCIST IN LINE WITH THE NEW WORLD ORDER!" - Big D
Sacre Bleu!

Just have a spoon of pesticides after drinking that pure natural raw milk. If it's good for the corn it's good for you.

Don't forget to sun your taint. I hear that cures all sorts of things
- A sun-goatse of sorts.
Throw in some powerful antibiotics too ... if it's good for the cow, it's good for you
A bit of roundup and horse paste, the MAGA cure-all.

Of course it was from Fresno, lol

I grew up on a dairy farm and we drank raw milk every day. I can remember my sisters bringing the milk pitcher to the barn and dipping into the bulk tank of raw milk every morning or so. No one got sick and no one died. We even made butter at home from it after separating the cream. But pasteurization is a good thing for all you urbane urbanites out there. It increases the shelf life and safety for consumption. Plus it reduces number of small dairies near population centers that used to exist. Dairies can be 100+ miles away now. After all, you wouldn't want to be exposed to the smell of cow shit right?

Raw milk does taste very different from store bought pasteurized milk, (whole milk ain't whole). And like shelf stable milk, I doubt anyone of you would like drinking it.

Those are also cows you personally owned and cared for. You knew their health, you knew their living conditions, and the milk wasn't produced soley (or maybe at all) for big corporate profits where production is the goal, and the animals well-being isn't.

I'm sure other people would be more supportive if the sources could be trusted, but that's difficult when you've seen how livestock is treated.
- You do understand that ALL dairy farms that sell milk are regularly tested for safety of the milk they sell. This is federally mandated. You miss the thresholds for bacteria counts, you will be dumping all your milk produced until it tests clean again. So those cows can't be held in very dirty and vile conditions because your milk won't pass those mandated tests. Slackers go broke and are out of business in short order.
  
  Don't get me wrong, I'm all for selling pasteurized milk in stores. The milk you buy in the store can be a week old before you see it on the shelf. But the unreasoning fear of raw milk is just plain ridiculous.
When I was a kid, we went to our neighbor who was a small milk farmer and got raw milk basically every day. Never got sick or anything.

Can confirm that raw milk does taste different, and to be honest sometimes I miss the taste when I drink pasteurized milk now
- While I certainly don't miss milking cows, I too miss the insanely rich texture and flavor of that fresh from the cow milk.
PASTEURIZATION IS A GOOD THING

LOL... the downvoting. I think as usual people read the first sentence and that's it. So you saying "pasteurization is a good thing" got lost.

PASTEURIZATION IS A GOOD THING

But totally agree - raw milk, in the right situation and handled appropriately, which means COWS YOU KNOW is just so much better. To the point where after our one neighbor we'd get it from moved away I just stopped drinking milk at all.

PASTEURIZATION IS A GOOD THING

Hey, I live there and someone just posted on our local Facebook page asking where to get some raw milk. I'll send them a link.

They really should start selling it and marketing it as never frozen fresh. It'll be even more effective that way once its legal nationwide.

at least CVD isn't contagious

Every new infection is a new dice roll for a human-human infection mutation

Low chance, but let's hope we don't get XCOM'd
- Cardiovascular disease is never going to be contagious, except through socially transmitted values that say it is okay to commit atrocity against cattle.
*yet

Fuck, dude, it's already in California? I was hoping it was at least somewhat contained to Canada but clearly I haven't been keeping up with the news on the issue.

It’s in our factory farming animals. It’s been that way for a while. The administration if just fucking around with it and not culling like they should.

And farmers are concealing their infected herds because they don’t want their animals culled. So just assume it is everywhere. We are probably on pandemic II feat. RFK Jr and Trump very soon and it is going to be a lot of fun.
- Hmmm. Maybe theres still a little time, but rather unlikely.
- I sure hope they chug that stuff.
- I just drank like 2 glasses of milk because it was strawberry flavored :(
What is contained in Canada? Bird flu? There has only been one case and they are unsure where the teenager got it from.

I wish they would irradiate it instead of boiling. Irradiation is completely safe and preserves the nutritional benefits. But the raw milk people are generally opposed to that, and irradiation has a PR problem. Sadness.

Pasteurization doesn't boil the milk though.....
- UHT does, 140C for 2-5 seconds. Shelf-stable without refrigeration for up to nine months unless you open it.
  
  Frankly speaking the difference between milk from cows with good diet vs. from cows fed protein slop is greater than between the modes of processing.
  
  Still have PTSD from my mother feeding me raw milk -- unlike in the US it's legal here, also heavily regulated so it wasn't a health risk microbiology-wise but boy am I sensitive to even slight off-tastes in milk because yes you're going to interrupt the cooling chain and no that fridge doesn't have 8C. Unless you're a cheesemaker or such and it's necessary for the process, stay away from raw.
  
  And, no, it doesn't have health benefits. Maybe if your kid doesn't play outside in the mud and the milk is the only source of germs they're exposed to, then it may help them to not develop autoimmune disorders. Be sane, choose mud over milk.
What nutritional benefits does it preserve exactly?
- There's was no response to this question as expected....
- Does it taste different? Of raw milk tastes different than pasteurized milk than radiated milk might taste different too.
I also imagine on the company side it's probably more expensive to do that rather than just making it hot enough.

So, I don't really understand the science, but my son is only able to drink raw milk. When he drinks normal milk, he has terrible stomach aches and mad diarrhea. When he drinks raw milk, it's all rainbows and butterflies. For reference, he's 3 and has been drinking the raw milk for around a year and a half. Also, the rest of the family had no issues drinking pasteurized milk. Maybe somebody smarter than me could explain why this is?

Have you tried nut or grain milk? I like oat, soy, and rice, but cashew is pretty good, too.
Have the rest of the family conduct a double-blind test. In other words, neither you nor the child now which is which.
This might be helpful, or it might be unrelated.

Recently, I made mozzarella from scratch. In order to do that, I needed some milk that wasn't homogenised. Homogenisation is the process of breaking up the fat globules within milk into smaller droplets so they're more evenly dispersed throughout the liquid, meaning there won't be a fatty layer that separates out when you leave the milk to stand.

Most milk that you buy at the supermarket would be both homogenised and pasteurised. I learned that pasteurised milk could work for cheese, depending on the specific temperature the milk was heated to during pasteurisation (because the required minimum temperature for pasteurization is below the temperature that causes issues for mozzarella, but some brands pasteurise at a higher temperature. Unfortunately most brands don't say what temperature they pasteurise at, but I got lucky with the first one I tried). That part's not especially relevant to you and is mostly cheese related

The thing I wanted to suggest, out of scientific curiosity more than helpfulness, is that I wonder how your son would do with pasteurised, non-homogenised milk — perhaps it's the homogenisation that's causing the problem, rather than the pasteurisation. If you do try this, I'd be interested to hear back how things go; I haven't heard of anyone having issues like this before
- Oh, interesting. I'll have to look into where to find that.
You should give oat milk a try (or soy/almond, but oat tastes the best imo)
- For some reason all the soy and oat milks I've tried taste terribly sour and bitter to me. At times I think "am I going crazy", when people around me describe them tasting sweet.
  
  Though also some vegetables, like coriander and parsley taste soapy and bitter to me, so maybe its some quirky genetics thing.
FWIW, there's a lot we don't know - but are learning - about bacteria and the gut. For example, if I'm not mistaken, a baby gets a lot of important gut bacteria from it's mum through breastfeeding.

So when I hear all this argument about raw vs pasteurised milk, I expect there really is something of health benefit to raw milk, just there's a big downside of harmful pathogens that can be cured with pasteurization. That doesn't mean all raw milk is unsafe. Like with raw eggs in the UK, or not iodizing your vegetables, it can be safer with care over production.

Anyway, that is to say, I figure there could be some interaction with the bacteria in the raw milk helping your son to digest it.

But having seen the other comment suggesting homogenisation, that sounds more likely to me. (Just a guess though.)
- There seems to be some disagreements among the healthcare community as well. With my son, we tried normal milk, goat's milk, and raw. The raw was the only one that didn't cause the gut issues. We mentioned this to his pediatrician, and he told us there was no difference. When we mentioned the variance to a different physician, he said there absolutely would be reason for him to react with the pasteurized but not the raw. I think he mentioned something about the breakdown of protiens when milk is pasteurized, but I can't remember for sure.
Should totally stop feeding him raw milk, get those lactose-free milk instead.
- Just use oat milk. It's creamy and delicious, and it lasts longer.
- I actually think we may have tried lactaid as well, with a similar reaction. My wife would remember for sure.
Maybe don't fucking feed him milk at all? Whoa mind blown...
- I felt so much better once I stopped drinking cow milk. If you look into the science, you really don't need it in your diet at all. Dairy lobbyists managed to get the government to promote it as necessary for health, though.

Raw milk now getting "Bird Flued on Date"

There's a method, but it's past your eyes before you see it.

Might get some hate here for this, but I’ve tried this company’s cheese. It’s the best cheddar cheese I’ve ever tasted.

Why would you get hate for that? Just because a company that sells cheese also sells raw milk when they probably shouldn’t?
- Nah, the owners of the company are batshit
Raw milk does usually make better cheese, sadly.

Fortune favors the bold. Hand me a glass at random.

Tbf, raw milk is delicious.

Uh oh you violated the cardinal rule of Lemmy and posted an opinion at odds with the intent of the OP.

I agree raw milk is delicious. Too bad most people cannot experience that safely.

Moo moo! Moo!
Lol, that's actually not fair.
So is chicken sashimi.
- And pork sashimi.
- Only in Japan tho
Lol there's no difference
- One does come with a bunch of potentially dangerous microbes
- Of course there's a difference. That's like saying there's no difference between a rare steak and a well done steak. Yes, they're both steak, and to some extent they taste the same, but they are very different.
brain parasites: yes... YEEEESS..
Compared to UHT milk or refrigeration required milk?